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I did watch a girl in high school beat four boys at armwrestling. She works out with weights and appeared to have equal muscles in her arms. Her arms were about the same size but showed muscles better. There was a short struggle and then the boys arms went down slowly until they lost. I would say that this isn't scientific but she was noticeably stronger. I heard she beat her older brother and two of his friends. I'm a 16 year old male and after watching her beat them I didn't want to armwrestle her because I couldn't beat one of the guys she beat. I think her muscles are the same size by watching but looked like rope strands sort of. The Department of Kinesiology and Applied Physiology, at the University of Colorado in Boulder in 2000 found that female muscle had 75% more endurance over male muscle. The study found that women outlasted men by an average of 75 per cent during muscle contractions under a load. But rather than some kind of motivational effect, the study found the difference was due to some feature of the muscles. In studies carried out at the University of Jyvaskyla in Finland, for example, 10 male and nine female strength athletes (powerlifters and body-builders) performed 20 maximal squat lifts, with three minutes of recovery between each lift. After the 20 lifts, the fatigued leg muscles of both males and females had lost about 20-24% of their maximal strength. However, various indicators of muscular power favoured the females. For one thing, the force-time curve an indicator of muscles ability to contract powerfully and quickly changed negatively by 28% in the males over the course of the workout but dropped by only 19% in the females. Females also recovered from the 20-lift session more quickly. One hour after the workout, female lifters leg muscles could generate about 92% as much force as before the session, whereas male muscles were just 79% as strong. Why was the fatigue greater and recovery slower in males? Part of the problem seemed to be that the male lifters nervous systems became less responsive over the course of the workout. From the first to the 20 lift, activation of leg muscles by nerve cells fell by 20-25% in males but held fairly steady in females. While its not clear why male nerve activation should deteriorate more quickly, it is clear that females lose less of their muscular power during heavy-duty resistance training and seem to recover more rapidly once a tough session is over. (Neuromuscular Fatigue and Recovery in Male and Female Athletes during Heavy Resistance Exercise, International Journal of Sports Medicine, vol. 14(2), pp. 53-59, 1993) AnonymousAug 23 2005 7:11pm This is not the only study that proves women have stronger muscles (the study found the difference was due to some feature of the muscles). Men on average have larger muscles but women have stronger muscles. Many women are building up the size in the gym. My husband and I workout together. I equal him in size now and I'm stronger than him. DebraSep 05 2005 10:55am I think men underestimate how strong woman ,woman have very strong lower bodies. Men think they are stronger but that's not always the case. You need to compare people of similiar size. A guy that weighs 220 pounds is more than likely stronger than a 135 pound woman. I just think it's ignorant to call all men stronger." If you chose 2 people, a guy and girl, roughly the same size, the difference in strength would be minimal. If You take a man and a woman that are compatible in height and weight, they will be fairly equal in strength. TaraSep 07 2005 1:17pm I outweigh my wife by more than 30 pounds and she can beat me in wrestling and armwrestling. She is just a naturally strong person. At first it was flat out embarassing, but now it's not so bad at all. DaveSep 07 2005 9:32pm From what ive learned from personal experience.A woman smaller than a average man who is strong can be physically stronger and can have stronger muscles than him even if he out weighs her by 30 or 40 pounds. AnonymousSep 08 2005 10:03am I agree that girls are stronger than boys with the same muscle mass. Most boys and men are stronger than most girls and women because during puberty males naturally grow bigger and develop more muscle mass. That's especially true for the upper body. Most girls would have to work long and hard to gain the muscle mass that guys get automatically from nature in the abs, chest, shoulders, back and arms. And most girls can't be bothered to work that hard. zekeSep 08 2005 10:40am I weigh 50lbs more than my wife and my upper body is quite a bit larger than hers. I can easily defeat her in armwrestling or anything strength related to the upper body. But her legs are something different. Her thighs are thick with muscle and are the same size as mine even though I am six inches taller than her. Her calves are just a little smaller than mine. We oftne leg wrestle and she simply toys with me. She can win without much effort at all. We have video taped it before and while I am straining my guts our she is often times smiling and laughing before easily tossing me over. The power of her legs in this movement is hard to describe. It feels like I am pushing against a bulldozer or something. In the gym I can hold my own with her legs on some exercises. But anything related to use of hamstrings and I can't keep up, not even close. I have also seen her do 30 reps with 320 lbs on the leg press machine without giving it much effort. I can't at least not yet, talk her into trying a one rep max. She is afraid she might hurt herself. BrittonSep 12 2005 10:17pm Women can certainly equal and surpass men in muscular endurance. My wife enjoyes arm wrestling with me and was able to equal my attempts to pin her arm and as I vainly tried I would weaken - she was then able to control the match and pin my arm at her pleasure. Although I am some 30-40 punds heavier than her, she has the upper body strength win our matches. We are now in our 50s, yet she retains the enthusiasm she had when we were newly weds - she is very competitive and takes pride in her ability to out muscle her husband. Although I hate to lose, I must admit that it is exciting be married to such a woman. HalSep 13 2005 2:22pm I am in the same situation as Hal. The only way for me to win an armwrestling match against my 52 year old wife is to throw everything in straight away to hope to surprise her. But she is prepared for this and just stopps me. After about one minute I start to weaken and she can take me down. We are exactly the same weight, 74 kgs an height 175 cm. Her legs are a lot stronger than mine. I can bench press more than her (just a little) for maximum weight but when it comes to reps I am outclassed. She can do 3 x 15 reps with 50 kgs, I can do 3 x 7. We work out togeter often. After a hard workout she can easily beat me armwrestling, she has strength left and I am totally spent. I have experienced that many women are strong and in many cases stronger than their men. If the size difference is not too big and the woman works out where the man doesn't the woman is often stronger. And it seems that women loose their strenght slower than men, we are getting more and more equal in strength after passing 45 years old. MorganSep 14 2005 12:55am My experience has been, women tend to have (or can easily build up) lower body strength that surpasses a man of equal (or a little bit larger) size. They tend not to fare nearly as well in upper body strength - but a strong back and legs are more useful anyway. (Especially if the woman has good grip strength, she doesn't necessarily have to be able to do such things as bench presses with a lot of weight to be able to lift/move around heavy objects.) For example, my ex used to scoot our California king-sized waterbed across the floor to clean/dust under it, just by sitting against a wall and pushing it with her legs. (Knowing I was impressed by it and liked watching her do it, she started inviting me to sit on the edge of the bed first. She could still do it and made it look pretty easy too!) I tried it myself one time, out of curiousity, and I couldn't budge it at all! TWSep 14 2005 2:09pm I have witnessed several similar things that you write about TW. Women make a lot of things look so easy so you don't realize that it is tough work. Our neighbour took her carpets out the other day to whip and clean. She was whipping all her carpets for about 1 hour without any more stop than when she put another carpet up for whipping! I told my wife I was impressed about this. She said that for a woman it is nothing. She said that it was about time we cleaned our carpets as well and we took the all down to the yard. I stared to whip the biggest of the carpets. You really need to use a lot of force to that one. I was totally spent after 10 minutes. My wife than took over and easily whipped all the other carpets while I was brushing them after. I have seen her moving big furniture easily, when we should clean under our piano my wife asked me to lift the end up on the piano. I couldn't move it. She asked me to take the vacuum cleaner while she was lifting. She just lifted it up with her leg strength. MorganSep 15 2005 1:26am What are yours and your wifes respective heights and weights, TW and Morgan? AMBOMBOct 02 2005 9:43pm My wife is 5'9 and 175 pounds, I am 5'11 and 172 pounds. MorganOct 02 2005 10:32pm Something interesting that I recently read. More than 75 percent of women do pre & post muscle stretching before weight workouts while less than 25 percent of men do the same. The article said that this not only reduces the chance of muscle injury but there are several other benefits to the muscles. Over time the muscles are lengthened and as a result the circumference will increase even more with exercise. Muscle strength is directly related to cross-sectional area and muscle stretching before and after workouts have been shown to increase muscle size by at least 10 percent more than not stretching over a one year period and at least the same in strength is increased. The article said that one reason women do this more than men is that they have more flexable muscles and it is more natural for them. This benifit to the muscle is more noticable in women as well when comparing both men and women who stretch and is beleaved to be the result of female muscle being more flexable and is able to stretch farther. There is also evidence that muscle hypertrophy continues as a result of stretching before and after workouts for longer time periods such as several years of this practice. That findings shown in women are an aproximent value of 10 percent size increase along with muscle strength yearly over muscles that are not pre & post stretched.... So does that mean that a woman might have 40 percent larger muscles form stretching on top of what would have developed from her weight training in a four year period anyway? Along with the strength that comes with a size increase? That's what this new reseach seems to be saying! It says this benifit (hypertrophy) is not nearly as noticable in men but (injury) is decreased in both men & women. WOW! Read this while at the doctor's office. Explains at least some of the posts I've read. AnonymousOct 08 2005 10:01am Anonymous, yes it's true that women have more flexable muscles and can stretch the muscle much farther. This is nothing new. It's also true that the muscle will lengthen over time. So it stands to reason that that the muscles will become even thicker and stronger with workouts. DeeOct 08 2005 11:00am Morgan - As I mentioned my wife is about 165 lbs and I am some 30 poundes heavier, yet her upper body strength is very evident as we arm wrestle. She has learned over the years that teasing me also gives her an advantage as I strain to gain the advantage, she is admiting that she is indeed much stronger than I am and the stronger sex are indeed the female. Often, she will have me admit in front of other members of the family or friends who wins when we wrestle. At first this seemed sort of humiliating, yet I now admit that it is even more exciting. I am comfortable with my wife's strength and when she proves her superiority in front of friends I can readily admit to her prowess. Even in her early fifties, she shows very good mucle tone when her arm isunder tension, many of our friends, expecially the women, get excited as they watch her out muscle her husband. I simply feel that there are many women out there you either wish the were stronger than ther mate or actually are! Until you have experienced such a lady, you will never understand how I feel - it's great!! HalOct 11 2005 11:57am During my years in elementary school, there was a girl named Jan Pickens who could beat every boy in school at arm wrestling. She was not "muscular" by normal standards, but she was solid. For years, she beat every boy that challenged her, including many boys bigger than her. By high school she was no longer challenging the boys, and she faded into a normal lifestyle. I ran into her recently. She is now 50 years old, and single. As we caught up on old times, I mentioned the arm wrestling years, and she immediately put her arm on the table and said let's try again! I was shocked at how easily she beat me, and I out weighed her by at least 60 pounds. She proudly flexed her arm, and told me that she once again was able to beat most of the 50 year old men she was around. She believes that men get lazy and stop working out, and that's why she once again is stronger than the average 50 year old man. She made a believer out of me! Dave M.Oct 11 2005 9:58pm I have come to agree that after about age 45, we women are much better able to maintain and build strength than our men. They seem to "lose it" faster than we do. We haven't wrestled for years but just last week, my husband and I went at it; it actually turned into a friendly but very competitive match. I was amazed; he simply was not that strong. I had to wrestle my hardest, but I had him pinned in about 3 or 4 minutes, and he was exhaused. The point is this; I could have NEVER done that 10 years ago; he was always able to control me before. Well, at 50 years old, obviously things are different--by a lot. It really wasn't all that tough to beat him (though I obviously didn't tell him that.) The episode did get him off to the gym, so I guess it turned out well! It's certainly no big deal, but I found the whole thing curious and interesting. He wasn't too happy about it of course, but was a good sport. He's a great guy-- SallyOct 12 2005 1:03pm Sally - I loved your posting - My husband Cliff was certainly surpirsed when he challenged me to arm wrestling about six months ago. I am 42 years old and he has just turned fifty .. I am very active especially playing tennis some 4-5 days a week and going to my aerobics classes three times a week. I am 5'6" and a good Italian diva and although I am not defined muscularily, I am solid and feel that I can represent strong womanhood. Cliff was watching one of his favortie videos on the computer (a couple arm wrestling) and I stood behind him watching this girl defeat her male opponent - I thought rather easily. As I asked him what he was watching he admitted he enjoyed watching mixed arm wrestling. So instead of having a fit, I suggested that if it was that enjoyable why shouldn't we arm wrestle? After stammering a bit, he agreed and we moved over to a table in his den. Since I had just come home from tennis I was still dressed in my tennis shirt and skirt and a bit sweaty from a very good match. As we joined hands I asked him what was in for me if I won? He replied that he would buy me a new tennis racket if I could beat him 2 out 3 times, either arm. I suggested he choose since I didn't want to hear him whine if and when he lost. As we began I simply matched every advance he made, but didn't try and pin his arm. As the match wore on I could feel him weaking and as he became frustrated that I was not giving an inch, I was able to begin pulling his arm down without a great deal of resistance. He was beaten and I had a great feeling of superiority - I sensed that he was excitied by the match and when we tried again, I was able to toally control him and again as he weakened I told him that I was going to slowly put his arm down and he could do little to stop me. Again, I felt a thrill as I showed him who was stronger ..... A stronger wife makes for a stronger relationship. A few days later I bought myself a new tennis racket and sent him the bill! I wonder if I should look for a new pair os shoes? DonnaOct 13 2005 2:32pm Donna--We're lucky you know; not all guys have enough confidence to even put themselves in a position to lose to their wife, let alone handle it well if they do. One comment and one question: go for the shoes, by all means! We may be strong, but we're still women; shopping is how we identify ourselves, right? Here's the question; could you have beaten him 15 years ago? Do you agree with my basic premise? (Happy armwrestling, by the way; it's fun beating them, isn't it?) SallyOct 13 2005 4:57pm My wife and I are now in our early fourties and we have worked out together for years. She has always had bigger leg muscles and much more lower body strength. In the last few years her upper body has developed to the point that she now has larger muscles than I do and has become the stronger one between us. About a year or two ago we armwrestled and I had her over the top but she stopped me and we struggled for moment. She grunted out "no you don't" and slowly pulled her arm up from what I thought was a win for me! Up to that point I had always won but it became clear she was becoming stronger. She slowly pushed my arm down until my strength was drained and I lost to her. She held her bicep in front of me and I could only look at her pumped muscles and think about what happened. Since that time we have armwrestled many times and as much as I work at it I no longer am able to beat her. Her muscles have changed from exercise and are thick compared to mine. I have no boubts about female physical strengths and the genetics that often give women more strength than men once those women began to put it to use. We have a great marrage and for many years she hid her power and was enbarrased, thinking it was wrong for her to be strong. I have wondered how many women hide that strength because they think they are not seen as ladies. My wife's 18 inch calves and muscular build ofter turns men's eyes, so much so that I know it is a very disirable trait. DanOct 13 2005 6:25pm I am 52 years old and my husband 51. I am 5'10, 178 pounds and he is 5'11 172 so we are of the same build. I suspect I have always been stronger than him but never wanted to really show him. He would have had difficulties when he was younger acceptint to loose for instance an armwrestling match to his wife. Some time ago we were watching TV seeing a man and woman armwrestling. The woman won. I looked at my husband and put my elbow on the table and asked him if he wanted a match. He looked surprised since we have never done this before. I decided to just match his strength to start with. I was in for a surprise, he was soon fighting with everything he had and I could just hold him. After some seconds I told him that I was about to start. I could easily put his arm down. The same result with the other arm. He said something about starting to work out. Even if I think I have always been stronger the difference is probably bigger today. His body has shrunk and his muscles are softer while mine is strong and hard. My legs are much stronger than his, something we always notice while we are taking bicycle rides. I agree with Sally, I think many women are catching up with their men after 45 and even become stronger. I like that. AnetteOct 14 2005 12:12am Sally - Actualloy I am not sure why, but we never arm wrestled before that first match so I am not sure. Cliff has and is still very active - mostly golfing - but I suspect that I wouldn't have been as dominate as I am today. The shoes were the next bet and YES I did get a very expensive pair of shoes, thanks to Cliff. I had an idea the other day, the next time we wrestle, the loser has to post how it feels to be beaten by their spouse - the idea that one is surely stronger than the other. I am trying to be polite, but I will monitor what Cliff has to say after the next match. It is actually fun to come home from playing tennis - it seems that I am pumped for competition and I really enjoy watching him feel my strength. Arm wrestling always seemed to me to be such a macho activity, now as I watch his reactions as he loses I can see the thrill. The immediate reaction of such a test of strength, one on one, he has to admit who is the strongest!!! I can't go back fifteen years, but I can continue to be the stronger wife ...poor Cliff. Sally, since we have never wrestled as you do, is this an activity I should pursue? I am not exactly wanting to be black and blue from the bruses - just a thought. Also, to me it would seem to be more interesting if we tryed for submissions rather than pins. It might be more fun to hear him say "I give!" rather than the 1,2,3! Thanks for sharing. DonnaOct 14 2005 9:38am Donna, it will be interesting to see what Cliff says. I thought I wa sstronger until we started doing a Bodypump class together and I could see that my wife and the other women there used weights much heavier than the guys did! weakerhusbandOct 14 2005 2:05pm Donna--well, Anette agrees too; interesting. Armwrestling is great, but beating a male in a wrestling match is sort of the ultimate. And don't worry about getting bruised; it won't happen. In boxing sure, but not wrestling. Submissions and pins are both fun; you can probably take him either way. (I do prefer the pin, though. There's something about forcing a guy onto his back against his will--I don't know; it's great.) Maybe it'll be different with Cliff, but being pinned by a woman can be very tough on a man's ego, more so than armwrestling; at least it is with my husband. So you do have to be mindful of the "male ego" issue. Maybe casually play wrestle in bed, make it close, and suggest that you think you could take him; see if he bites. Let me know if and how it goes. Congratulations on the shoes, by the way; I'm jealous. Maybe you could work your way up to a car? Take care. SallyOct 14 2005 7:40pm I really believe that we have stronger muscles when compared to men. For example I could always wait until my husband's muscles became tired and weakened before beating him at armwrestling. I could stop him and hold him but found it difficult to win until he wore down and then I still had the plenty of strength to finally bring his arm down. Now it's becoming easy because of weight workouts. JanetOct 14 2005 11:02pm I pinned my husband in bed several times this morning, we playwrestled but it got almost serious at the end since my husband realized he was about to loose. It was even easier to win the wrestling match than the armwrestling match. Good fun (for me). It feels a bit wierd that a 50+ couple can wrestle for fun. AnetteOct 16 2005 3:51am Anette--not all that tough was it? As we said, after ~45, things change. A word of advice if you don't mind; don't make the same mistake I did. I always wrestled my hardest, and was beating him quite easily and quickly--to the extent that he realizes that can't possibly beat me. His ego is smarting now--understandably--and he's not really that willing to wrestle any more. So keep it close enough that he always thinks he has a chance for a win, otherwise he may just give up; he'll always have either a bad elbow, sore back or "a headache". SallyOct 16 2005 9:12am I have read before that researchers found that when equal volume of muscle is compared, the female muscles were about 10 percent more powerful. The ability to contract powerfully and quickly is superior. AnonymousOct 16 2005 11:44am Sally - The shoes are great, the car does eem a bit much - althought I would be willing (just kidding). I really repsect your thoughts concerning wrestling and will give it much thought. Not having any brothers growing up I don't know diddly about wrestling holds, etc. Actually with so little knowledge about wrestling I would hate to be pinned by Cliff - so I need to think this out. There might be a solution that meets common ground for now or I will simply stay at the arm wrestling table. I agree that at times the male ego is fraigle especially when it comes to momen. Yet, I could not resist sending an E-mail to my husband's secretary (he owns his own company) and ask to her ask Cliff about where Donna got her new tennis racquet? So far I haven't heard, but I bet she gets the secret from him. Remeber, to the victor goes the spoils!! DonnaOct 16 2005 5:38pm Yes, the muscle tissue is more resilient and flexable and contracts with more power and hold that power almost twice as long. Scary but true. Women lack the mass to overpower men in most cases. Except women who are pumping iron, they sometimes have equal mass and men find themselves overpowered by a woman with the same size muscles. DonOct 17 2005 5:37pm Woman are certainly stronger when having the same muscle mass. I have been overpowered twice by a woman with less musle mass the me. LarryOct 18 2005 5:11pm Sally - OK I got the message, or at least the teasing from my secretary regarding a certain new tennis racquet. Yes, I finally told her how that came about and she certainly got a good laugh - "so your wife beat you at arm wrestling!!!" etc, etc. I as competitive as Donna and really don't look forward to being beaten by her, yet I can handle these wagers and their consequences. I must admit that I am surprised at how strong she really is, even though we seem evenly matched, she has been able to with stand much longer than I can and then as I weaken she applies the final pressure. I always thought that I was much stronger, especially over the earlier years, yet we never really tested each other in this manner. I supect that now, she has proven that at our ages, she is now better at arm wrestling. Is she really stronger? I haven't admitted that yet!! CliffOct 18 2005 7:31pm Hi Cliff. Your reaction reminds me of my husband's. You don't like losing to your wife, but (I'm reading between the lines here) you are proud that she's in shape, strong and physical. Donna's negotiated a great deal, I must say; she gets the intense pleasure of putting a man down AND gets shoes and rackets when she does it! It's funny; she beats you in armwrestling--a strength contest--yet you still think you're still stronger. Hmmm. My husband mumbles the same kind of stuff. Probably best to admit the truth; physically we've surpassed you guys (finally), and the gap will likely continue to grow. But don't despair--and I think I speak for Donna too--we still would much rather have you go to the office than the gym; we need our shoes! Take care, Cliff. SallyOct 19 2005 6:46pm Sally - This past weekend we had a couple of arm wrestling matches and again the wife was victorious! I just read Cliff's posting and sometimes I think he must be brain dead .... thank goodness he is so successful at his business. I am going to have to do something that will show him the truth on who is really stronger. He needs to admit to me in no uncertain terms that he knows one of us is stronger than the other. Your thought concerning how much stronger I am, how much more dominate I am at arm wrestling, needs to be temperaded so we can continue to compete - it is so much fun to watch and feel his admiration when I win. DonnaOct 24 2005 11:40am Have any of you compared muscles with your mate? Such as with a tape and measure or how hard the flexed muscles are? I have with my wife and found that her muscles are harder, almost the same size but she is stronger. My upper arm is a half inch larger when flexed but I can't beat her at armwrestling! KarlOct 25 2005 6:54pm My girlfriend's bicep is not as large as mine when relaxed at 14 inches and mine at 14 1/2 inches. When flexed her's is 16 inches and mine is 15 1/2 inches. Weird but fact is she is stronger at arm strength with weights or arm wrestling. We've been both training together for two years. I think she has stronger muscles when size is considered. She is even stronger after a workout than I am. She is much stronger in a strength test after a workout but we are close to the same strength before a workout. Go figure? JeffOct 25 2005 7:10pm Hi Cliff and Sally - you guys are an inspration. I can see I am going to have to start the same competiton with my wife. One question - have you found that doing these challenges is changing which of you is dominant in the relationship? What have other couples found I wonder? weakerhusbandOct 25 2005 10:27pm In our local newspapers, it has become very noticeable in the sports page that girls are becoming more muscular than boys. In news photos covering soccer, basketball, and track, the girls have more muscle in the legs and very often in the upper body now. I can only guess it is because of the girls training for sports. In team line up photos taken at the same location, the girls on average have wider shoulders. This was easy to see becauase of the brick wall as a backdrop. By lining up the girls and boys shoulders with the backdrop it became clear girls shoulders were wider on average. Just an observation. AnonymousOct 29 2005 4:11pm Girls outnumber boys now in some sports such as soccer & swimming. League and conference scholar-athlete awards banquets are seeing girls outnumber boys by wide margins: 54 girls to 33 boys honored at a March event in mid-Michigan USA. In more than 33% of schools in USA Girls outnumber boys in all sports activities according to the 2005 Digest of Educational Statistics and many are training in gyms to build muscular strength for sports. The roster of girls wrestling on high school teams nationally has swelled quietly from 100 to 4,000 in the past decade. The muscular strength of girls is becoming more obvious. Girls are ahead in everything else in schools and athletics will be the same. SuzanneOct 29 2005 4:37pm I recently arm wrestled a woman from our gym on a bet. Her biceps measure the same as mine at 15 inches but I'm taller by 3 inches. I did loose all three times. I don't think it's scientific or anything but we also curled on a bicep slant and she could do more reps before failure. I'm not sure if she can do more weight because we were tired at that point. Her arms were more pumped and became bigger than mine after that. I'd have to agree that on average women's muscles could be stronger for the same size but I haven't read much about it. SteveOct 30 2005 6:08pm Sally - This afternoon I believe that I made my point. Cliff invited me to lunch, so we met at his office before going to the restaurant. I went straight over to his desk, sat down and proceeded to put my arm up on his desk, ready to arm wrestle. He looked a bit startled, bnut with some urging he joined me and we negan. I called to Pam, his secretary, to come in for a moment. As I held his arm without giving an inch, I explained that this was a test to see who was the stronger! I simply sat there, looking at my arm, not him, and smiling. Even I was so thrilled by how strong I felt. Cliff was totally being controled, by me, and Pam watched as, after letting him feel competitive, I brought his arm down, slowly, deliberatly, to the table. I know that Cliff was also watching my arm as he fell to defeat. His little Italian darling was proving that she was indeed stronger than her husband. After a great lunch, we both went home -my only regret was that I didn't arm wrestle him for the check. DonnaOct 31 2005 6:08pm Sally - Donna is suggesting that I send this posting to you to apologize. To you and her I am sorry for doubting my wife's strength and doubting that she is stronger than I am. Today I realized how strong she really is, compared to me, she is so much stronger than I am or ever will be. I now believe that even if I went to the gym regularily that she will be always maintain that superiority, I shall never under estimate the strength of her again. Coming home after lunch she again proved not only at the office, but here at home that she can clearly defeat me at arm wresdtling. She actually let me start with an advantage by almost pinning her arm and as she sliently watched only her arm work, she pulled us even and then swiftly pinned me. She then had me admit, to her over and over again, "You are stronger than I am!" I feel so fortunate to have such a strong woman in my life. The match in my office, with Pam as a witness, was humbling, but not humiliating, for she simply responded to my posturing and commenting on our comparitive strengths. Again, I am sorry that I doubted my wife. CliffOct 31 2005 9:39pm Sally_i completely agree with you. i am 52 and always assumed that my husband as stronger than me. When we went skiing this year he was struggling with all out bags and so i carried them..then at our chalet he asked me to arm-wrestle because he was concerned i might be stronger, So after arm-wresting him and then pinning him I made him admit I was the dominant partner which was great. do you think we women were always stronger at our age or is this just in our generation?? rachelNov 01 2005 3:43pm Hi Rachel--good question; I'm not sure. But I think it's always been this way; it's biology. On average I think women start overtaking the men at around age 45 or 50. Here's my amateur theory: Few would argue that young testosterone laden males in the 20s are very strong, agile and aggressive. I'd probably get my ass kicked by 90% of them. But who is more mobile, stronger and assertive in their 70s and 80s? It's the women. The guys can hardly move at that age! Generally, we are far more capable physically in the later years; we do most of the driving, most the lifting; take most of the initiative, etc. Conclusion: Men start "higher" and end "lower"; they simply deteriorate faster than we do. Our curve is flatter than theirs, and the crossover point is around 45. My experience, Donna's and Cliff's and those of others seem to bear out my contention. What do you think? SallyNov 01 2005 7:23pm Thanks Sally. I agree that it has probably always been this way. Perhaps the difference is that we are the first generation of women who are willing to acknowledge that we are the stronger sex and can be dominant in our relationships. I have noticed that since I beat my husband wrestling it has become very clear to our friends that I wear the pants in the family. Is it your experience that women become more dominant once the man has to admit he is weaker? rachelNov 01 2005 9:30pm Good observations. From my perspective since we had our little match in his office, I feel more dominate, Cliff better understands our relationship and with Pam witnessing the event, she sees the husband/wife as it relates to Cliff's business. He still retains the authority in his professional world, but I am the driving force at home and how that relates to work. It was important for me to have that experience demonstrating that "older" women can be strong, willing and capable of leading their male counter parts. DonnaNov 02 2005 8:05am I totally agree with Donna, Rachel and Sally. Many men are physically active during their 20s and 30s and then they start to slow down in their 40s and 50s. Many women start for the first time in their lives to work out in their 40s and most seem to love it and just work out more and more. No wonder that more and more couples find out that suddenly the man is no longer stronger! I must say I love this new situation being stronger than my husband and he behaves differently against me in a very positive way. I think this is the male way of thinking, to earn respect out of being stronger. Anyway our relationship is better than ever, and I am sure this is because I can now kick his ass if I want to. AnetteNov 02 2005 10:45am Here is another piece of the puzzle. WE have a lady that works for me for the past fifteen years and we talk regularily. I had mentioned that my first wife was very strong and developed that strength during her forties with a very disciplined exercise program. She really enjoyed arm wrestling and defeating me at a male oriented sport. Angle has a grown son and a daughter in the 9th grade. She told me that at their senior prom she beat all the girls arm wrestling and most of the guys in her class. SInce then (she is in her mid 40s)she has been active but is not stronger than her husband and it drives her nuts! She feels that she is stronger than many women, yet still cannot win at wrestling or arm wrestling, although the gap is narrowing. SHe also said that her daughter did MORE chin ups at the school fitness test last spring than any girl or BOY in her class! She is very proud of her daughter's taking her abilities to the max. So her is a woman who enjoys being physical and has yet to reach her potential and yet she continues to work out and be active. ArthurNov 02 2005 11:38am Sally - I am a blue blodded male and although I enjoy a strong woman, I have to say that Donna went way too far in humiliating her husband. So she may be stronger, but to subject him to an arm arestling match in his office seems out of line to me. To be agresive in your own home is OK, but to subject his secretary to watching this humiliation, I don't understand how she can seek such a verification of her dominance. Next he will be submitting to her every wish, UGH! I hope that Cliff sees the light and shows her who is the boss in their family. CurtNov 04 2005 9:57am Arthur - I enoyed hearing about Angel. It seems that she had the right attitude to arm wrestle while in high school and certainly was succesful at beating many of the boys in her senior class. It is interesting that she currently is not stronger than her husband, but her competitive juices are flowing and if I were betting, I would put my money on the fact that she will accomplish her goal over the next ten years and prove to him that as she matures into her fifties that she will surpass him physically and again be dominate at all facets of wrestling. Hence, she will become stronger as he becomes weaker - exactly as Sally has predicted. It is refreshing to hear that Angel will talk about her physical strength and speculate about her daughter and her success. We know things are getting better when daughter is like mother! CaroleNov 04 2005 10:11am Good points Carole. What do you and others think about letting sons and daughters know when the woman has become physically stronger and psychologically dominant. My daughter had been teasing my son by saying that the women of the house were stronger than the men and then asked about me and my husband arm-wrestling the other day and I wan't sure what to say. What do others think? rachelNov 04 2005 10:49am Rachel - we had somewhat the same question some years ago. My husband and I enjoy arm wrestling and I really enjoy it when I win. Actually we were "caught" by our two kids, a boy and girl, one evening when we thought they had already gone to bed. We both simply told them the truth and invited them to watch our match and as I remember it, I won again. Of course they were surprised, but actually thought it was cool that mom could beat dad. My husband is very solidified in his masculinity and confidence, therefore, he showed none of the classic macho syndroms that so many males seem to posses. I am sure that this went along way to satisfying our children that every thing was OK. Since our daughter is several years older than her brother and being very active on the swim team while in high school, she showed little surprise when I appeared stronger than her dad. She explained that many of her team members also arm wrestle guys at school - no big deal! CaroleNov 04 2005 12:28pm Rachel around our home we look at the arm wrestling like any other activity where we compete. We play backgamon, scrabble, tennis, golf, arm wrestling, etc. and winner or loser is just part of the game. We don't feel that there is a proable gender winner, therefore, teh family and friends able to share in the games themselves. Now I won't be honest if I didn't realize that since my wife can defeat me at arm wrestling any time she chooses that there hasn't been a change in our relationship. She has become more confident, assertive and a leader in many of our life decisions. Her strength doesn't bothter me and I admire and repect her determination and discipline that it took her to become the dominate spouse. HalNov 05 2005 9:24am Our teenage daughter has become by far the strongest in our household. She has always been involved in sports and for the last three years she has strength trained in the school gym almost every day. She is 5'10" at 180 lb. Just recently I had my husband, son, and our daughter flex together for my camera. She is more muscular like a bodybuilder next to the men. She is strong enough to lift her father off of the ground and above her head with her arms. This I find very amazing because the first time she did this was with her hands in his armpits from behind and the next time she picked him up and cradled him for a moment and then lifted him up. Like our son he is thinner than our daughter and weighes about 145 lb. She also can beat them at armwrestling. Girls like our daughter are becoming stronger because of sports and strength training. TeresaNov 05 2005 10:49am I wanted to respond to Curt. I think you have a very good point, not just with regard to Donna, but all of us newly "empowered" women--myself included. We probably are getting a bit arrogant and c*cky reveling in our ability to kick our guys' butts. If we go back and reread some of the postings, it's clear we could show more class. BUT, in fairness to us, Curt, an awful lot of you guys are chauvinists and have treated us like weak second class citizens for a long time. If you keep that reality in mind, I'm sure you can understand how satisfying it is to take a man down, control him, pin him and force him to concede defeat. It's great, and it's hard for us to contain ourselves! It's not really defeating and humiliating our husbands that we are boasting about; we all love our men. They are simply acting as surrogates on the wresting mat for all of the male jerks out there with whom we are getting even! But your point is well taken; I for one will try to be more gracious. Are the rest of you girls with me? SallyNov 05 2005 2:01pm c*cky SallyNov 05 2005 2:03pm Sally, I am not so sure that Donna was wrong in displaying her dominance in front of the secretary. Wives and secretaries have a common bond, the husband/boss. We do not really know the relationship that Donna had with the secretary, but I don't really see a problem with letting the secretary in on what the wife could do against the husband/boss. It wasnt like she made him arm wrestle in front of the whole office and besides, her husband probably could use a little more humility. I know that the male ego is very fragile (mine certainly is) but if I had a wife or girlfriend who was stronger than me, I would hope I would be secure enough in my relationship with the woman that I would not worry about or doubt her regard for me as a man. If she were to become the dominant partner, I might express my opinion (even if I were pinned to the floor), but as long as she was not abusive, I would still expect our relationship to continue to be one of partners...with her maybe making the decisions? WowserNov 05 2005 3:43pm Sally, I think it is very complicated. Encouraged by the posts here I talked to the rest of my family about being more open on who was dominant, physically and in decsion-taking. I found to my surprise that my husband Barry said it had been liberating for him to be able to admit that he thought I was the boss in the family. My son was also happy , he said, to say that men were the weaker sex. So perhaps we girls do need not to be arrogant but maybe we are also doing the men a favour by overtly taking over? Is this possible? If so perhaps Cliff and Pam are both empowered in their different ways now by Donna showing her true position? rachelNov 06 2005 3:23am One of my friends told me about this board (she has posted here). I am very active physically, even more now after my 40th birthday. My husband is quite a bit bigger than me at 6'2 and 200 pounds to my 5'9 and 169 pounds. After reading the postings here I challenged him to an armwrestling match. He was quite surprised at this but I explained that I needed to test my strength against a strong man to feel the difference. He told me a little bit about the technique required for armwrestling and then we went at it. You could see he was surprised when he had to fight really hard to pin my hand. It took him at least 45-50 seconds of hard struggling. He told me that I was probably stronger then several of his male friends. This really got me going and I just had to challenge some of my male co-workers some days after. It was quite a shock for 3 of my 5 male co-workers to see their hands go down rather quickly. I felt so powerful. The other 2 chickened out. The women at the office congratulated me and wanted to feel my muscles. I will soon join the local armwrestling club. I really have enjoyed reading all these postings. Maureen BNov 06 2005 7:03am Hi Rachel: I guess what bothers me a little is the constant use of the words "dominance" and "dominant" in these postings. Remember in our earlier years we women would preach "We want to be 'equal partners' in a relationship with a man, even though he is bigger and stronger."? We certainly didn't want to be dominated: I sure didn't. Now the tables are turned. But I'm sure not seeing too much about "equal partners" in these postings; now all of a sudden domination is great! When my husband easily beat me years ago, he never made me feel inferior or "dominated". Now in our 50s, I shouldn't make him feel that way either. As tempting as it is to gloat and act "dominant" after beating him, I find it's better not to. I'm just suggesting we exercise a bit more modesty and understanding in our superiority!! SallyNov 06 2005 10:10am I believe that it is time for me to again donate my two cents worth. Although I now realize that Donna is stronger than I am, she has never taunted or ridiculed me in regards to her superiority at arm arestling. When she came into my office, flipped off her jacket and prompted me to A/W with her arm on my desk, I truly was excited and as she demonstrated her strength, even with Pam watching, I was so very proud. She has emerged as a strong woman, in control, yet still sharing our lives together as partners and lovers. Her stregth does give me a "new" found admiration for women and hopefully respectful of all women, whether or not they are stronger. Until a man has sat across from his wife, experienced how strong she has become, accept defeat at her hands, then you will not truly understand all the range of emotions you will experience. I still believe in myself as a masculine male, a man who accepts his role in a relationship with a strong woman. CliffNov 06 2005 12:47pm Cliff--You and Donna have everything in such perfect perspective; yours sounds like such a terrific and enviable relationship. Though My husband and I have a great relationship too, he still is sensitive when I beat him in a physical contest. We're working on it, though! I'll use you guys as inspriation. Thanks for the posting. SallyNov 06 2005 1:18pm Sally - Thanks for the nice thoughts. We do have a very nice relationship, we work at it, but equal respect goes a long way to building that bond. I would like to pass along another feeling that I am having; I like the fact that I am a strong woman and am able to share that fact with Cliff. I like it so much that now I have feelings that I want to be stronger. I don't see that I will ever get muscularily defined, nor do I want to, but I would love to get stronger, much stronger! Certainly I can increase my exercise time per week to achieve those results, what I find interesting is my desire for increased strength. When I win at arm wrestling I get as excited as Cliff and now I want more. The desire is a bit difficult to understand, yet verbalize, I am simply trying to understand myself. I realize that may be asking for alot, but what else is there in life than to seek the answers. DonnaNov 07 2005 6:42am I had an interesting "muscle test" with my wife the other day. I'm a bit embarased by the fact that she beats me at armwrestling and that her biceps are a little larger to start with. But she said that she read about a woman who could squash apples with her biceps on the internet. She brought home a bag of fresh crisp apples and asked me to try. I thought it might be easy and took my shirt off think the juice would get on it. I tried several times and several apples by holding them between my forearm and bicep and flexing as hard as I could, nothing happened except my bicep flattened against the apples. I tried so hard that I brused my muscles but couldn't smash an apple. On the otherhand my wife's bicep pushed into the apple smashing it with a sound and juice running down her arm. She did this over and over with my apples and after a few minutes she could do it faster! I was in awe! I'm amazed at this! I could watch her muscle squashing into the apples! I just couldn't do anything to them and found them to be way to hard. I really think she has stronger muscles for there size period. I think this is very interesting, I knew she is stronger but I had no idea that her muscles were so much harder when flexed. She even said that her muscles could do this to mine if we were to lock arms and flex! Haven't tried that. DaveNov 07 2005 5:51pm Sally, I really appreciate your posting about us not gloating or acting dominant when we find ourselves stronger than our husbands and I certainly agree that all we ever told our men we wanted was equality. However, the strange thing with Barry is that once he found that I was physically stronger he seemed to want to defer to me and for me to be the boss more in our daily lives. I will ask him to write a post about how he feels but I wonder if other couples have found this to be true?? rachelNov 07 2005 10:05pm Dave, that is really hot. I wish I could see that. If your wife ever tries that with your arm please let us hear from you, after you have recovered, of course. WowserNov 07 2005 10:37pm I'm Christina, and I'm so excited about what I just did! My best friend, who reads the notes on this site, told her husband she thought I could out-wrestle him. (I wrestled a little in high school and won a few times.) Bottom line, she set it all up--mat and all. Neither Rich or I really wanted to, but neither wanted to chicken out either. So we did it! I was nervous--he's got 30-40 pounds on me. The match went on forever!! He almost had me a couple times, and I almost had him a couple times. Finally, he weakened a little, and I got him in a super tight headlock and pulled him right over on his back; it happened so quickly. I must have held him in that near-pin position for at least a minute until he finally dropped back on his shoulders and conceded the pin. It was the most exhilarating feeling I've ever had. Wow! ChristinaNov 08 2005 12:57pm Christina, great work! Isn't it amazing what a woman can do against a male? There are so many women out there like you that don't have a clue that they are stronger than they think they are and men are NOT automatically going to beat them. WowserNov 08 2005 9:45pm Great job, Christina. Way to go girl! Questions; what are your ages, and how did Rich handle it? SallyNov 09 2005 5:05am Dave, lets have more stories about your wife. Has she been working out long? What got her started building her muscles? Tell us more! MikeNov 09 2005 2:39pm It's Christina again. To Sally's question, I'm 45, he's 50-51. He did not handle it well. He made himself scarce fast. In fairness, Mary (his wife) didn't help. She was actually down on the mat at the end, seeing if his shoulders were down, and slapping the mat like the refs do when I pinned him. She was all excited about my win--a little too excited. Also, the neighbor's kid wandered over and saw him lose too. Not good. Oh, well--he'll survive. Thanks for the responses, by the way! ChristinaNov 10 2005 5:26am girls are stronger than boys with the same muscle mass. Within two years of marrage I had the same muscle size as my husband after we had started working out together. I was by then much stronger over my husband though. I'm still stronger after eight years. VickiNov 11 2005 9:39pm Christina; A few of us--Donna, Rachel and others are coming to the conclusion that women's physical prowess starts surpassing that of men at around age 50. Your entertaining story is another example supporting the idea. Thanks for the postings. SallyNov 12 2005 2:15pm I went back and read your postings, Sally. I, too was surprised; Rich was not nearly as strong as I thought he'd be. Honestly, I was the stronger of us two; I could just feel it. (I had to be when you think about it--he was bigger than me, and I pinned him.) And I know I could beat him again, too. Amazing. ChristinaNov 12 2005 6:45pm Sally, this is Barry - Rachel's husband. She asked me to read these postings and then write how I felt about it. To be honest I was amazed when I found out that Rachel was phsyically stronger than I was! Although she is mentally tough I had always assumed that I was stronger, as the man in the relationship (and I know I was stronger when we were younger). When we first wrestled recently it seemed pretty even until she came out on top but this seems to have liberated her and now I find it hard to compete. Surprisingly I find that I am both thrilled and nervous that she has surpassed me in strength. Thrilled that she has come into her own and it is true, as she says, that she is now making more of the decisons about our lives. Nervous that the gap between us may widen as time goes by - do you think we men can catch up or should I just get used to being the weaker partner?? BarryNov 13 2005 10:14am Barry, get used to it and enjoy. AnonymousNov 13 2005 3:26pm Barry--Absolutely try to catch up! Win or lose, you'll be more competitive, you'll end up getting in better shape, and I'm sure Rachel would encourage it. Also--she might beat you wrestling, but that doesn't mean you are weak; I'm sure you're strong in lots of ways. It's great that she's taking on more responsibility, but it's hard to imagine it's because she beats you in wrestling! I'm sure it's because you both want it that way--which is great for you. Who wants responsibility anymore at 50 anyway? Let her have it all, and you go to the gym! SallyNov 14 2005 12:58pm Sally, I think I am in love with you. You sound like a very good and caring woman as well as being pretty sensible and smart. Please tell your husband that he is a very lucky guy, although I think he knows that. WowserNov 14 2005 2:39pm Wow, Wowser!! You just made my night. Thank you! SallyNov 14 2005 3:36pm Barry--I hope you don't mind if I put my 2 cents in here; but I do know a bit about wrestling. Though male/female wrestling is sort of a test of strength, I don't think it's a great way to decide who's stronger. After 50 when you guys lose your "explosive strength", we have almost an unfair advantage. We have stronger and more flexible lower bodies, which is where the biggest and strongest muscles are in the body. Your advantage is only your upper body strength--but if you're up against a girl with a good pair of shoulders, which I bet Rachel has, you're in big trouble. I just beat a guy named Rich who is bigger than I am. But I bet he can curl more than me or can do more push-ups than me. So who's stronger. There are lots of ways to be strong! AnonymousNov 14 2005 5:25pm Last comment was from Christina; I hit the enter key too early ChristinaNov 14 2005 5:26pm Christina and Sally, thank you for your wise and helpful observations.As you say there are lots of ways to be strong. In our case I have a good business and have always been the breadwinner. To your point, Christina, Rachel has been going to the gym for years now and has a very good pair of shoulders - in fact she read your posting last night and has challenged me to a competition tonight in curls and press-ups... so we will see. Wish me luck! BarryNov 15 2005 10:17pm You'd better win, Barry. The pride of our threatened sex depends on it!! Good luck. Dave (Sally's abused husband)Nov 17 2005 12:52pm Gee, Barry, no pressure! Hey Dave, I hope you are not serious about being abused. From what your wife has written, she doesnt seem like that kind of person. Besides, I am in love with her and jealous as heck of you. Does she have a sister? How about her mother? Ha! Hang in there Dave. WowserNov 17 2005 2:09pm Just kidding of course. You're absolutely right about Sal--she's the best. DaveNov 17 2005 4:53pm Well Dave, I am sorry to say it was a victory for the female sex! Rachel and I agreed on 3 sets of tests- curls, sit-ups,leg-press and press-ups. She arrived wearing tennis kit and I didn't take her seriously enough initially - thinking that really as a man I would be stronger. But she won all except the arm-curls in round 1. I took 2 of the exercises in round 2 but by the time we did the third round I was getting tired whilst she seemed fresh as a daisy. So I lost all 3 of the last round.We then wrestled and because I was tired it took no time until she had pinned me - only agreeing to let me up after I had admitted that she was the stronger partner. She has been really good about it today- not rubbing it in except when she asked our son and daughter to guess who won !! BarryNov 19 2005 8:30am Barry--tough evening, I guess. Sorry. Sounds like you were pretty close until the wrestling. That was your mistake! For some reason, wrestling these female gym rats at our age is just death. I don't really understand why they do so well on the mat; I really don't. I probably would to well against Sal in the curls, sit-ups, etc., but I absolutely cannot beat her in a wrestling match, no matter what I do. It confounds the hell out of me and drives me nuts. I'm bigger than she is too, yet she'll pin me almost every time. Oh well, at least I'm not the only one! DaveNov 19 2005 2:50pm I am a Swedish woman, 54 years old, 172 cm and 76 kg. A few years ago I watched TV with my husband, one of the commercials had a husband and wife armwrestling about wheather they should use their money on a holiday trip or a something else. The woman won rather easily. I joked and told my husband that he was lucky we didn't solved our small desputes that way, because I should then always have it my way. Of course this lead to an armwrestling match. The last time we did that was when we were young, back then my husband won, but he had to fight for it. Now we were both surprised how easy it was for me to pin his arm to the table. I almost slammed him down! He thought I had been practising armwrestling behind his back. I then challanged him to a real wrestling match, best out of three. Again we were surprised how much stronger I was. I felt really good showing him how strong I was. He was rather quite about it. Back then (this was 5 years ago) I just had aerobicw once a week. My husband played squash 2 times a week. Since then I have worked out with weights 3 times a week. I am a very strong 54 year old woman today. I have been able to beat all our male friends (except for one big man) and most of my co-workers. My husband is 182 cm and 77 kgs. I really enjoy being stronger and I am also enjoying reading the postings here. SaraNov 20 2005 6:19am My wife and I have our own home gym equipment. Now after three years she has gained so much strength that It eventually became Obvious that she was just as stronger if not stronger than me. Eventually we had a some contests of strength which I could see was inevitable. It was embarrassing for me because her overall strength is now a little greater in single lifts but in the number of sets and reps until failure, I could not match her at all. She ia about 70 percent stronger in this area and at some sets she is able to do twice what I can before her muscles give out. I would do my set until failure and she would match it and continue way beyond my strength. This led to wrestling with the same results. DwightNov 20 2005 12:24pm Dwight, there are so many husbands/boy friends in your situation and I am jealous of all of you. WowserNov 20 2005 7:32pm Dwight, does she look muscular? Have things changed in the home now? How do other people react to her muscles? MikeNov 21 2005 7:55am ARE TEENAGE GIRLS BECOMING STRONGER THAN BOYS ?Girls are stronger and more athletic now than ever, will they eventually pass up boys in sports? As girls continue to progress and norms change the boys will be relegated to secondary roles, more girls are getting into sports and even lifting weights and many boys only play video games which means boys on average are getting weaker and girls getting stronger. We have quite a few girls at many schools that could beat up a lot of boys.Girls improve faster and faster in all kind of thing in last 20years in struggle for gender equality. Today girls have much opportunity than before 10 or 20 years ,they have much confidents. Times are changing. Girls no longer feel they have to "let the boys win," and they're willing to compete all out against the guys in all kind of sports. AnonymousNov 22 2005 3:05am Dave, thanks for your support. Isn't it amazing that our girls can beat us like this! I wonder if it has to do with greater flexibility and leg strength? I found I was doing fine until Rachel got me in a leg-scissors which was too tough. She has arranged for two other couples to come round soon for a battle of the sexes evening and I am going to the gym each day right now to prepare..One of the other husbands rang me and was a bit nervous about it whilst the second one is very confident that he is going to be stronger than all the girls. We shall see.. barryNov 22 2005 12:48pm Mike, yes she is becoming muscular and more so than me even though we workout together. By size and measurements, the girth of the muscles is larger now with her. Her strength was greater at around the same size muscles but she has a little more size compared to me at this point in time. It was because of her gain in muscle that we compared strength. DwightNov 22 2005 9:06pm I'm interested in this subject as a mother of a teen daughter who is now stronger than both older brothers. Our daughter is involved in sports, at 14 years old, she is stronger than her 15 & 17 year old brothers. At school the girls have weight lifting every day and our daughter takes supplements and more protien at the coaches instruction. This has resulted in her becoming stronger than the boys and more muscular. I'm curious as to other families where the girls are now trained to be strong. As our daughter says "Im pumping iron for an hour a day" and knows that she is stronger than most boys. ConnieNov 24 2005 4:36pm Connie, How are your boys reacting to their younger sister being stronger? rachelNov 24 2005 9:29pm My girlfriend works out with me. To began with two years ago I was stronger than she was but I was surprised by her strength in that she was about 80 percent my strength. After eight months we began to trade off on weights & machines. She was just as strong and by years end I was being challenged to keep up. Her endurance is far better than mine and her strength surpassed me after our first year. we've continued for this last year and she is about 25 percent stronger than I am in her upper body and more like 40 percent in her legs. Just wondering is anyone else having a similar experience? BrianNov 25 2005 6:53pm Wowser, the wife wanted to try locking arms and put muscle against muscle at the biceps. I thought about what she could do to those hard apples with her bicep and how I had failed to smash even one. I agreed to give this a try though because I figured it wouldn't work. First she placed my upper arm with my bicep against hers and curled her arm and I did the same, she pushed with her left hand forcing my arm down into the space between her forearm and bicep. She told me to go ahead and flex so I did as she curled her right fist around the backside of my upper arm while still pushing with her left arm. I felt my muscles expand as I held the hardest flex that I could but it was tight and difficult. She says "let's see who's muscles are stronger when there's only enough room for one" and she flexed. This is not a very pleasent experience! Her bicep pushed into mine and I could see the muscles of my upper arm sqeeze out from where her bicep was flexed. As a matter of fact I could feel her muscle had pushed mine out of the way and was pushing hard against the bone in my arm. All I could feel as the pain went numb was her muscle against bone. Yes, I'm brused and nothing shows on her arm. DavidNov 25 2005 10:28pm Holy cow, David! That even sounds painful. I hope she doesn't start making a habit of finding ways to crush your muscles, she may have to start looking outside the home for new victims. If that does come to pass, PLEASE let me know. Ha! At any rate, even though she left a bruise on your arm, you must have recovered ok. Just don't tell her yet! Thanks for letting me know. WowserNov 26 2005 3:55am Brian, research studies conclude that even moderate weight training can increase a woman's strength by 30 to 50 percent. Research also shows that women can develop their strength at the same rate as men. Here's something I had saved from a research article. When it comes to muscle hypertrophy for quadriceps and bicep muscle volume before and after training (24 and 29% for men and women, respectively), muscle volume increased in women on average 5% more. The percent or relative change in strength favored women (22 ? 3 and 29 ? 4%, respectively). The increase in bicep size men and women (10 ? 3 and 12 ? 4%, respectively). Muscle volume and muscle quality before and after training favored women and per unit of muscle volume (kg/cm3), there were significantly more increases in the women's training group. The training program resulted in greater absolute increases in 1-RM strength and muscle volume in women over men. When the 1-RM test was used to assess strength, suggesting that, in addition to muscle hypertrophy, the observed strength increases involve neuromuscular adaptations. Several previous investigations have reported greater relative increases in strength than in muscle size in women. Only a few of these studies, however, have reported what muscle mass changes occurred. Findings suggesting that neuromuscular adaptations may play a greater role in explaining strength gains in women also explain a greater increase in hypertrophy following the strength gains where as in men hypertrophy occurred sooner but with less strength gains. Overall hypertrophy measurements where greater in women over the full training time. This is likely to be most important during early stages of training, when neural adaptations result in rapid strength improvements resulting in greater power output per muscle volume. Alterations in muscle architecture followed rapid increase in strength such as greater pennation angles in female hypertrophied muscles were noted. Once exercise induced muscle hypertrophy began in female muscle a 14 and a 7% increase, respectively occurred between the men and women in the training group of 65 collage women and 70 men. This magnitude of hypertrophy may be partially due to the heavy-resistance, high-volume nature of our test program. Training-induced changes in muscle architecture and specific tension, a study of adaptive response of gender skeletal muscle to exercise with high loads - Appl. Physiol 1999 In some of these research papers an increase of muscle size or strength favors women. AnonymousNov 26 2005 11:39am Hey I read about how girls scored higher with a dynamometer for evaluation of dynamic muscle power in half-squat exercises executed with different loads, ranging from 35% to 210% of the subject's body mass. The result was the girls had stronger muscles and that the measured strength between the sexes [increased] to more than 30 percent stronger in the girls as muscles were pushed to failure over and over. After only 1/2 hour of rest following exercises to the point of muscular failure the girls returned to continue to pump the muscles at more than 90 percent capacity and the boys had fallen to 75 percent of their pre- wokout strength. The girls muscles at that point were 15 percent stronger. Again pushed to failure and 1/2 hour rest. The third test shows even more. The boys leg strength was now at about 50 percent while the girls had fallon to 85 percent. The forth test shows the girls muscles are now about 50 percent stronger! The University of Colorado research shows as much as 75 percent more muscular endurance in girls. The dynamometer tests are from sports trained high school girls and boys in a research. I know that when I wrestle my husband, he weakens until he isn't strong enough to prevent me from pinning him. GailNov 26 2005 12:27pm women have better blood flow into the muscles. It should stand to reason that this should aid the muscle in not just performance but also pumped size during work and boost development over the long haul. TDNov 26 2005 2:29pm Why are girls larger and more muscular at 13 years old compared to boys? If it isn't male hormones, than what makes them stronger? I'm 15 and my 13 year old sister has muscles like a pitbull and is stronger. GlennNov 26 2005 2:34pm A year ago my dad bought me weights. My sister had a fit and it was agreed that she too could use my weights. I thought she was fat but it's muscles and it shows when she works out. Our mom has us stand and flex showing that my sister has the muscles. How do girls get bigger muscles? My sister's were bigger to start with because when I thought she was fat it was muscles and now she is starting to look like a bodybuilder next to me. Our mom like to compare us and go on and on about my sister and wants us to wrestle. We armwrestled and I can't beat her. I had beat her over a year ago and she brought that back after mom wanted to see who would win. Mom watches her workout and makes her have protien drinks and lots of vitamins. My sister brought out a tape measure from a sewing box after mom asked for it and after my sister exercised and measured our arms and legs. I didn't have a workout when this happened but my sister is bigger and they both made coments on how much stronger my sister is. All I know is that there is plenty about girls being stronger at our age but nothing says why. My sister is more muscular than I am. GlennNov 26 2005 3:17pm Glenn, I don't know why they're stronger but if you wrestle your younger sister, please let us know the outcome. In the name of science of course. Say, what is you and your sister's upper arm measurements when flexing? AnonymousNov 26 2005 5:17pm Glenn, I don't know why they're stronger but if you wrestle your younger sister, please let us know the outcome. In the name of science of course. Say, what is you and your sister's upper arm measurements when flexing? AnonymousNov 26 2005 5:18pm Glenn, sounds like when the genetics got divided up, your sister got the muscles. I had a simalar experience growing up but my sister was a year older and was made of muscle. She would wrestle me down all the time and beat me, for years. I'm stronger than her now but not by much, this is only guessing as we are adults and don't wrestle. But she still has muscles that are bigger than mine in her legs and her arms are strong looking. Once she would get me with her legs as kids, I was a goner! Her legs are still buffed and big but I have no idea what her strength is. BrettNov 26 2005 8:22pm My sister's arms are 15 inches and my arms are 13 and her's are bigger not flexed. We both workout so go figure? Her muscles got bigger and she's a girl! I would like to know why girls like my sister can build muscles? GlennNov 26 2005 8:37pm Glenn, I agree with Brett, it sure sounds like she got genes from someone in the family. Does your mom or dad have any degree of muscle? That coupled with her weight training and the better muscle endurance that females have may account for her being bigger. WowserNov 26 2005 9:30pm By the way, 15" on a 13 year old girl is rather unusual. Is she a big girl? What are your heights? Let's see, she is 13 years old with 15" arms and you are 15 with 13" arms. Hmmmmmmmm.... WowserNov 26 2005 9:34pm I didn't come here to be joked with. I asked honest questions about this. She is two inches taller and bigger boned at 5 foot 9 inches. Her arms look fat until she makes a muscle and they are big and round. I have felt her muscles and it's not fat you can't squeeze her muscle it's hard. she is bigger and stronger than me. I find it hard to talk about so I thought maybe here I would say something. My sister wants me to wrestle her, my dad says nothing and my mom is all over it. I can't beat her she's all muscles but my parents seem to want to watch this! Her body looks like a bodybuilder. Maybe not like a pro but with lots of muscles. Just thought I'd ask. GlennNov 26 2005 10:50pm Yes Glenn, girls have stronger muscles and you are finding that out at an early age. Now that both you and your younger sister have began to do muscle building workouts do you find it interesting what is happening? She is able to build more muscle even though she is a girl and become stronger than you while using YOUR weights. Why don't you go ahead and wrestle her and find out? What better answer could you ask for than by facing it and finding out how strong she is? You know the old saying "sometimes it's better to do it your self" so you need to test your muscles with hers. I hope that helps. PaulaNov 26 2005 11:09pm Glenn, you are absolutely right and I apologize for my insinuation in the second note. You should be safe in voicing your questions and concerns in this forum and I had no right to suggest what I did. Many of us on this board are curious about the same questions you are asking but we are also fascinated by the results of such encounters. There are many who are really into the scenario of an older brother being defeated in competition with a younger but stronger sister. I find it interesting that your parents also want to see the matchup, but I don't think it is unusual for parents to want to see their children compete and I can understand their reactions to the idea of a wrestling match. I still believe, as I said in my first note that your sister appears to have inherited genes that give her the capability to build muscle. A 13 year old girl that is her size (and 2" taller) and is also lifting weights will have a larger capacity for muscle even though it doesn't follow the traditional belief that the male should be stronger. The female matures earlier than the male, and we are only beginning to understand the effects of weight training on young girls other than it helps them get stronger. Since boys mature later, there is a good chance you will go through a growth spurt within a few years and end up stronger than your sister. Frankly, I don't know what the future will hold, however, at this point, even if only for self-preservation, I think you should switch gears and be proud of your sister's accomplishments. Yes, it is tough for you to accept her size and strength but she is family and many years from now she will still be your family. Right now, be proud of her and encourage her and just accept the reality that she is bigger, stronger and more muscular even though she is younger. I wish I had THE answers to your questions and maybe someone else on this forum will. Hang in there Glenn, life gets a lot better down the road. WowserNov 27 2005 10:54am Lisa, is that you in the photos? if so, nice going! The pics certainly certainly back you up. WowserNov 27 2005 4:10pm Sally - We just got back from a Thanksgiving Holiday and I was able to take another step as you have suggested. At the hotel as we got ready for bed Cliff wanted to arm wrestle, which I was happy to oblige him, and we actually tried right handed and left handed we similiar results. The matches got my juices flowing and as we headed for the bed a playful wrestling match began. I was able to get behind him and slippinmg my arms under his and clasping my hands together behind his neck I was able to apply what Cliff calls a full nelson. By applying pressure downward I could control him as he vainly tried to pull my hands apart and as the pressure intensified he sank to the floor where I released the hold. As he struggled to get up I wraqpped my legs around his middle and squeezed. As we lay on the floor he tried to pull my legs apart, but the more he resisted, the more I squeezed. I could feel his hand on my thighs as they were so hard he had no chance to break the hold - so he called it quits. I on the other hand, I was having fun and continued to apply pressure so he really was uncomfortable with the pain. Finally I let him go and he just rolled over on his back and layed there moaning - poor Cliff! It was easy from there to for me to slide over on top of him and as I looked down I rubbed my thighs, "They are strong aren't they? So strong! Never doubt that a your wife can be so much stronger than you!" Sally, you are right, winning at arm wrestling is great FUN, but feeling Cliff under me, submitting to me, well I have never felt that thrill before. The male ego must understand that we as women become stronger with age, the males must follow in step. From then on, the rest my evening was for my benifit!!! Thanks for the enncouragement. DonnaNov 29 2005 10:50am Sigh! WowserNov 30 2005 1:55pm bench press I forgot to say about the world record NilsDec 03 2005 7:57am Donna--It was fun reading your posting. I knew you would win. Once we can beat the guys in armwrestlihg, it's pretty much a given that we'll take them in a full wrestling match. Since our lower bodies are a bit stronger naturally, when we surpass them in upper body strength as well, they've got nothing left; we've got all the aces! Well, congratulations. Let's keep them barefoot and pinned! SallyDec 03 2005 3:45pm My boyfriend is at least two inches taller but I'm stronger. This has become obvious in the gym. I've compared. LennaDec 09 2005 7:32pm Lenna, how have you compared and how did he react? RafeDec 10 2005 6:50am My strength is greater in single lifts and by comparing the number of reps we each can do with any given weight. My upper body is stronger but my legs are really ahead in strength. In every comparison I've proved stronger. It was he that asked me to workout with him about a year ago and I gained on him until a week ago when I could notice that he could not match me as I added weight folled by seeing who could do more. One thing I've noticed is that my muscles are longer than his and are now just as thick in my arms and bigger in my legs. He seems to act as though he has open a Pandora's Box and I've told him at this point that I'm going to build my muscles now that I can see whats going on. I've looked it up on the internet and explained to him that I have an advatage with my longer muscles. I know my myscles are stronger for the same size. LennaDec 11 2005 1:17pm Lenna, thanks for the response. It sounds like your boyfriend is not yet sure how he feels about being the weaker partner. If you continue lifting, you will get bigger and much stronger and it will be interesting to see his reaction to that. Good work and keep lifting. RafeDec 11 2005 1:34pm In 1995, St. Petersburg's Kelly Williams became the first girl in Florida to win a boys district wrestling title. This year I watched two girls smash boy after boy and it was clear that it wasn't just skill, it was greater physical strength. The girls would soon have the boys in a position to be pinned and then the girl would power the boy into a hold showing surprise and sometimes pain in the boys face. One match in particular the girl continued to pull the boys arms behind his back while she had him held with her legs, the boy was straining red faced and soon shaking as she continued to pull his arms back and he started with an advantage. It was interesting to see both the girl and boy's muscles and her slowly overpower him. It was this was for several matches until one of the girls won. The only two girls in the turniment. The girls appeared to win by strength, almost always overpowering and forcing the boys into a pin often holding the boys arms and forcing the boy's arms into a position that the girl wanted by strength alone. AnonymousDec 11 2005 3:51pm I can beat my older brother at armwrestling. It takes about five minutes to beat him and I can hold him until he tires out and then bring his arm down. He's too strong to beat right away and he's not strong enough to beat me, were about even until several minutes passes and by then my muscles have veins standing out and that's about when I can win. I think girls have stronger muscles because my arm isn't tired when my brother's is and that's how I win. LizaDec 11 2005 5:54pm Liza. that's great. You're endurance is certainly greater than his and backs up what we have been learning about women's muscles. It seems they can retain more strength longer and at failure be able to return with a greater percentage of strength available than the male. You might try that for yourself. If it is true than both of you resting for the same amount of time and then armwrestling again, you should beat him faster and maybe without just holding him until he tires. RobDec 11 2005 6:10pm Thanks Rob, I'll try that and I have noticed that on the second or third try it's not as difficult to beat him but I had still been holding out and waiting. My muscles get pumped when I hold on and I feel like I have more strength when I'm warmed up and that's when his arm gets tired. I'll try sooner on a rematch. I don't consider my brother weak but I workout for school sports. LizaDec 11 2005 6:29pm Liza, Women seem to have more "fatigue-resistant" muscles and I think it's because women have more muscle elasticity than men. Science is now proving that women do have stronger muscles in many respects and female muscle is responding to hard excercise in many respects better than male. Some research has proven strength gains are better under the same conditions. What you are seeing is that your muscles are in fact outlasting your brother's and as his endurance falls, your muscles are now able to contract against his with more force overcoming his muscles with endurance. Some research has even shown that your muscles may even rise in strength and peak while his is dropping off in strength. I think you have noticed this. AnonymousDec 11 2005 7:32pm Liza, if you don't mind. What is your bicep measurement relaxed and flexed. Before and after a workout or armwrestle. The same for your brother. Please post this. JamesDec 11 2005 7:55pm Before a workout relaxed with my arm straight it's 12 1/2 inches and flexed 14 1/4 inches. After I worked out it was 13 and and flexed over 14 1/2. My brother's arm is 12 1/4 not flexed and 14 flexed. I can beat my brother almost right from the start on the third try. I can also pull his arm open when we face each other with our upper arms flat on the counter top and pulling straight. LizaDec 17 2005 4:05pm Liza, good work and I'm impressed with your size. I was pretty sure you would be able to beat your brother from the start after one or two times and that kind of proves the point that the female muscle recovers better than the male muscle. You haven't said anything about your brother's reaction to all of this, although he must not mind since he does try. Have you taken the competition to the wrestling mat yet? RobDec 18 2005 8:39am I have wrestled my brother and we are very close in strength. He really doesn't seem to mind me beating him and is always interested in seeing my arms flex. I think it is interesting that I can out last him, I just don't know why this is. My muscles are harder though, flexed or relaxed. Merry Christmas to all! LizaDec 23 2005 5:13pm Liza, it sounds like your brother might like strong girls. Maybe he would like to tell his story as well. At any rate, be sure and keep us informed of your development and your various tests of strength with your brother and boyfriends and any other boys or men you encounter. Merry Christmas to you and your brother!! RafeDec 24 2005 11:57pm Anonymous, I've read another research article with similar results on lower and upper body muscle groups. For one thing men and women have the same average fast twitch slow twitch muscle fiber ratio, however the "force-time curve" is better in female muscle. In other words under the same load the female muscle is able to contract with more power and quicker. The force time curve from relaxed and out stretched to full contraction against the load. After continuous repetitive contractions at 80% of maximum single rep loads, the men's muscles dropped to less than 90% strength long before the women's muscles became fatuiged. Not only that by the time the women's muscles began to drop down in strength, the men's muscles were at 80% capacity. Women maintained over 90% of their strength after several sessions and a short rest while men's strength continued to fall to 75%. Women's muscles were able to hold a contraction against a 50% max single rep load nearly twice as long. If you were to look at the muscle performance from each group and not the gender, you would see the greater strength in the female group stands out. This is of course measured in equal muscle mass. KirstinDec 25 2005 12:31pm I've been reading all of these posts about situations where guys' girlfriends and wives have gotten bigger and more muscular than them, and here's my story (which I posted on a few of these boards in order to get some other opinions)! It's totally true that when a female pumps serious iron and equals the weight of the guy (and trains/eats like a male) her muscles can get bigger and stronger pound-for-pound than the guy. I'm living proof of that. I think that the reason that most women don't get big and muscular is because they don't want to. However, I decided that I wanted to and did (but lost my boyfriend in the process). My ex-boyfriend and I had been lifting for about 2 years and, for some reason, my muscles grew much faster than his. I made up about a 25 lb. weight difference and, right now, I weigh a little more than him. I did (and continue to do) some very intense lifting with pretty heavy weights (more than he could handle) and got on a pretty strict diet (he didn't). He never got as intense about it as I did and he basically stood by and watched my muscles grow bigger and stronger than his. When he noticed how big and strong my muscles were growing, he tried to match me in the gym, but just couldn't. First, I noticed my bicep muscles getting bigger and I was able to pretty steadily increase my barbell and dumbell curls until I exceeded what he could do (he was pretty stunned about it by that time). My back then widened and my shoulders got bigger. I always had good legs and am very strong on the leg press and extensions and my legs got much thicker soon after. I also started showing some veins on my muscles, but he didn't have any. Finally, one day, we both had sleeveless shirts on and I asked him (really reluctantly) to compare muscles. We both flexed in front of the bathroom mirror and he watched in total awe as my muscle got bigger and bigger next to his (I flexed slowly) and my muscle swelled to almost 2 inches bigger than his!!! I am also way bigger than him in the quads and calves (especially calves since most guys are easily beaten by females in calves). What's even more amazing is that the "quality" of my muscles seems so much better than his. My biceps are more peaked and have a much better shape and are SERIOUSLY harder than his. I believe from what I have read that the muscle-quality of females is superior to men in terms of hardness and contraction strength when developed. All of this translated into some major strength gains and I got much stronger than him. Wrestling was no contest - not only are my muscles now more powerful than his but I have better endurance. For example, we had one wrestling match (which, in reality, I think ended our relationship) where I was really giving it everything that I had. I had his upper body locked between my legs, but he managed to pin my arms behind my back and there we were - both locked in "muscle combat" with our bodies exerting all the power our muscles could generate against each other. However, as we remained in this "locked" position (which seemed forever), his muscles began to weaken and tire while mine just kept exerting power. I could hardly believe it. He tried to keep my arms pinned, but his arms started to shake from the strain while I seemed to actually get stronger and my muscles got bigger. I know that he could see my biceps and shoulders pumping up and as my muscles grew in size I actually felt a rush and strength and power come into my body (maybe it was the thought of actually beating a male in a strength contest). Soon I was able to push his arms back and lift my upper body so that I could get more leverage on my legs. I then squeezed his chest a little harder and just "sat there" and let my leg muscles work for me against him. Finally, he had to submit and I told him to try and pull my legs apart, but I couldn't. So, he gave up and I released him and it was so totally amazing. Well, I won the match, but I ended up losing him since he just couldn't take being with a female that was bigger and more muscular than him. The last time that we went out was to a picnic with some friends - I wore a sleeveless sundress and he had on a tank top and I looked much bigger and more muscular than him with bigger arms and shoulders and a wider back (all our friends said so which really upset him). After that, he dumped me!!! However, it is refreshing to know that there are guys out there who appreciate muscular females and I'm going to keep lifting and try to get even bigger! One last thing, a guy named "lawson" posted earlier here said that his wife is able to flex her bicep muscle hard, hold it, and then have the muscle somehow expand more. I can do this too!! When I am doing curls and reach failure, if I continue to hold the weight and keep my muscle contracted, you can actually see the muscle contract more and get bigger (like it did when I wrestled my ex-boyfriend). I then have more power and can do 2 or 3 more reps! It is so cool and it totally freaked my ex when I showed him this. Anyway, If any of you girls have similar experiences with your men (or "ex" men), I'd love to hear from you and maybe we can compare notes about our experiences :-) My E-mail is: biggermusclesthanhis@yahoo.com (isn't that a cool one!!!!!) Janet JanetDec 25 2005 3:55pm That is what my arm muscle does when I armwrestle my brother. I hold on until he gets weaker. I really do get stronger when he has become tired. My muscle gets bigger and I can feel and see it after holding on for some time. I beat him easy after this happens! My brother has even noticed my bicep muscle becoming bigger than his during armwrestling. LizaDec 26 2005 1:01pm I have read from several sources that about 80 percent of the muscle fiber in male muscle actually contracts. Men have larger muscles on average so they are stronger based on size. Studies show that nearly 100 percent of the muscle fiber will contract in women's muscles and will not in men. What I have read is that the amount of fiber contracting is directly related to what the muscles are required to perform. What researchers suggest is that hormones or nerve input is playing a roll contraction in women that differs from this in men. What you may be seeing during a workout to the point of muscular failure or during arm wrestling is a required percentage of muscle fiber contracting until more is required. At that point the remaining 10 or 20 percent of the muscle fiber in that muscle is now starting to contract and you see the muscle contracting more while becoming bigger. This is one factor along with endurance that may make a woman's muscle stronger than a man's when the muscle mass is equal. AnonymousDec 26 2005 6:24pm Janet & Liza, would you say that your bicep becomes "noticably stronger" because of this (the muscle contracts & expands more)while holding a weight or during armwrestling? SteveDec 26 2005 6:48pm Steve, yes my biceps become stronger for a short period after holding for a while armwrestling. They get bigger. LizaDec 29 2005 5:37pm Women have been closing on men at the rate of roughly half a percentage point per year. While that number may seem trivial, in terms of athletic performance, it's a fantastic amount. "I'm convinced from my own experience watching women finish the Comrades [the world's preeminent ultramarathon running event], and from the data we've collected comparing men and women runners, that women have more endurance," says Dr. Tim Noakes, an exercise physiologist at the University of Cape Town, South Africa, and author of "Lore of Running" (Leisure Press, 1991). The reason you slow down at the end of a long race isn't metabolic, says Noakes. It's due to muscle damage. "We've studied the women who finish the Comrades Marathon, and they look better than the men," he says. "The men's running forms are all out of whack, but the women's aren't. And I think it's because women have more muscle elasticity than men, and they retain it better during a race." Experts say female athletes appear to have greater endurance than men By ERIC HARR, New York Daily News Anonymous AnonymousDec 31 2005 12:45pm Afew years ago before I left home for collage, I armwrestled my younger sister for the first time and I beat her. I was also impressed with her strength as it wasn't as easy to put her arm down as I thought it would be. We continued to armwrestle quite often while at the same time she became involved in sports at school. Now she was working out daily with weights. As we continued to armwrestle it became obvious she was getting stronger. Within a few months it became impossible for me to pull or push her arm down plus I could see her muscles were at least as large as mine. We didn't armwrestle for about two months or more after that until she asked to see my biceps. I flexed my right arm and she pulled up her sleave and compared her's. The fact was she now had a bicep that was a little bigger than mine. This lead to armwresling again. For the first time she forced my arm to the table after about ten seconds. We continued to armwrestle for about a year off and on and I could never beat her again. It's been several years now and she's only become stronger and still into sports although we have not armwrestled for so long. BradJan 01 2006 1:26pm Paul-thanks for the pics - yes we are getting stronger, women of all ages are striving for a more muscular physique - it is certainly about time. I know that I don't look like these lasied, but I DO feel that strong inside. Cliff and I tought his daughter and her husband sking the week after Christmas and one day after sking where Cliff was ragging me about how much a better skier he is, he really is, I decided to challenge him at my speciality. As his daughter Peggy and her husband watched I started giving Cliff some trash about howw I was able to beat him at arm wrestling - with Peggy looking interested as I explained how her dad and I have been wrestling and that many wives now have become so much stronger than their husbands. As we continue to discuss the subject I motioned to Cliff that we needed to have a match right then - there in our hotel room. Reluctantly he agreed and I took off my sweat shirt and we began. I really was in a devilish mood and I actually let him take the advantage, declaring that he was getting so much stronger. As the seconds moved on I finally stopped his advance and noted that maybe he was not strong enough! I slkowly worked his arm upright, then as Peggy stared at my arm swell, I pulled Cliff's arm down to the table. "Well",I declared, "now tell her who is stronger". Peggy became quite excited asking whether her dad really tried - sheepishly he admitted that indeed he tried, but that I was really so strong that I could win any time I pleased. She wanted to know more how I got so strong and I simply explained that today's women are simply demonstrating what many of us already knew, men are the weaker sex. Laughingly, I looked at Jack, her husband, and explained to her that if she wanted to learn how, just give me call and I could help her defeat her husband. Peggy winked at me and said how about next week? Watch out guys, the woman in your life is simply waiting for the opportunity to so you how strong she can become - Happy New Year - 2006!!! DonnaJan 01 2006 5:19pm I enjoy seeing all these posts from strong females. My first wife certainly met this crieria. We dated in college and she was my first great love - she was tall, athletic and very competitive in all aspects of her life. After we were married, had two children, she announced to me that she was going to the gym to get back into shape and "to see how long it would be before she was stronger than me." Her competitive nature was such that she had to have a goal - that was to prove to herself that she was superior to me, in mind, spirit, and body. It took almost six months, but I could see her body transforming, tighter and showing more muscle definition. Yet, she was content to wait until about a year and one evening she challenged me to an arm wresting match. As I agreed, she left the room returning with a sleevess top on - it turns out she wanted me to "see" her muscles as we wrestled. To this day I can see and feel that night, she held me arm straight up, intently watching only her right arm, never smiling or acknowleging me, simply in a zen like concentration. As some twenty seconds elapsed she sensed that I was weaking and began an offensive pulling that I could not stop. During that night, at her isistence, we arm wrestlled about twelve times, right and left handed, until she was confident that I knew how strong she was. She never smiled, but simply was reaching her goal and needed to establish the fact that she fully entended to win, she was confident of winning and doing made the entrie venture complete. Ladies, that was the most exciting night for me, admitting that my wife was physically superior, her muscular developement, so impressive that I was never able to win a match against her in over ten years. She soon realised my excitment at her dominance and let few moments pass by where she could demonstrate that power. As time has passed, although we are not together any more, I respect the strength women possess and will always be thankful for those lessions. MarkJan 01 2006 6:12pm Yes I do think girls have stronger muscles when everything is considered compared to boys. This comparison being equal muscle mass in both sexes. I'm only basing this on my own experience and what I have read. My girlfriend has been strength training and we have started wrestling around sometimes. The last time I had her by the wrists, I couldn't push her arms down. JamesJan 02 2006 4:54pm JANET, please tell us more about your muscles. Does your bicep expand even more after it is flexed when you concentrate and force it to contract more? How much larger does it get, if you have or can measure the size? Thank you for posting about this, I have seen this before in a girlfriend's bicep. Something I tried to do but never could. StanJan 04 2006 7:11pm Researcher Charles Fulco at the U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine in Natick, MA, tested men and women on a task that measured muscle strength and found that the fairer sex has approximately twice the muscle endurance as guys at sea level. "We also found that women were better able to maintain their endurance at altitude," says Fulco. "When men are initially exposed to altitude, they have reduced small muscle endurance, whereas the women had no such decrement." The payoff? Women can exercise longer before depleting their glycogen stores. AnonymousJan 06 2006 5:00pm Hettinger discovered that if we assume to compare a mans and womans Carrying the same muscle mass the strenght of the man will be less 28%. Because estrogen , womans muscules are flexible and more profitable-90%. Man have more muscle but only 70 % profitable .So pound for pound woman are stronger.And teenage girls are much stronger than teenage boys. In fact, when Messing observed Olympic athletes she noted D. Chester's The Olympic Games Handbook, and found that, "in 1924, when women were first allowed to compete in the 400 metre swim, the best man's time was 58 seconds faster than the best woman's; in 1972, women's time had come to equal that of men in 1956 and was only 19 seconds slower than that of the men in the 1972 competition. Similarly, in the 100 metre run, men improved by 0.66 seconds between 1928 and 1972, while women improved by 1.13 seconds." Again, keeping matters in perspective, let's observe the difference, shall we: 19 seconds. 19 seconds is the difference between strong and weak, is it? Interesting. What is more interesting, however, is the indication that as women become more comfortable with building strength and being strong, the gap between the sexes begins to disappear. That is, if women become more comfortable with strength. BarbaraJan 14 2006 10:29am I really enjoy all the postings on this board and I appreciated all of the thoughts and comments on my last post. I didn?t have a computer for a while so I wasn?t able to post or answer E-mail, but now I have a new one! Anyway, I?m the girl that lost her boyfriend because I developed my muscles and strength to be bigger than his. It?s really refreshing to hear that there are guys out there that appreciate muscles on females. However, I still think that most guys really don?t like girls like me that are bigger and more muscular than them. Here?s an example: Over the holidays, I went to a party with a bunch of guys and girls my age and I wore a classic "little black dress" (sleeveless). I normally don?t wear much sleeveless out to parties and the like because of the negative reactions I have gotten lately. Anyway, I decided to go sleeveless (mostly because I didn?t have anything else to wear :)). Because my arms have really gotten muscular, I think that I initimated all of the guys and not one even talked to me except for a quick "Hello" (and I have been told that, aside from the muscles, I?m pretty decent looking). So, it was a really terrible evening which is why I?m still kind of amazed that there are actually guys out there that like musclegirls. However, there was one interesting sideline to the party - one guy actually did talk to me and kept staring at my biceps (and calves, too) and started to talk to me about how strong I looked. I thanked him for the compliment and then he asked me if I would armwrestle him!! This really surprised me and I told him "No" since there were so many other people around. However, he looked so "hurt" that I changed my mind and said that I would if we could not do it in front of other people. Actually, armwrestling guys sort of intrigues me since I?m still getting used to being more muscular and powerful that a lot of guys. Anyway, he pushed his sleeve up to his shoulder and his arm was basically the same size as mine although I had much better definition :) So, we started and were basically "locked-up" in a fixed position for what seemed like forever. However, as time went by, I could see his bicep muscle kind of shake a little and then his fist started shaking. However (and this goes back to what "Lawson" on this board said about his wife which was fascinating), I started to feel stronger and I could actually see my muscle begin to expand more and rise up higher than his. As soon as the muscle got bigger (and a few veins showed out), I felt totally confident and was able to push his arm down. I couldn?t believe how much bigger my muscle was able to grow when pushed to the limit and it was so totally cool!! (although I held back and didn?t say anything about it to him). However, my bicep looked so much bigger than his after this whole thing that we both sort of looked at each other. Not bad for a girl! However, the poor guy came with a date and she spotted the both of us and off he went! (In "trouble" no doubt). Anyway, just thought that you might want to hear about my party and if any of you girls have similar experiences, let me know since I?d love to hear how you handle these things! biggermusclesthanhis@yahoo.com JanetJan 19 2006 9:25pm Stan, I saw your posting and just wanted to respond. If I flex my bicep muscle many times until it is pumped, if I then flex hard and REALLY concentrate on making the muscle hard, I can actually force it to contract more and expand (Really!) so that it grows bigger. It don't know how or why but it does and the muscle then feels much stronger. Pretty strange (but cool), huh? :) JanetJan 19 2006 9:36pm Stan, I saw your posting and just wanted to respond. If I flex my bicep muscle many times until it is pumped, if I then flex hard and REALLY concentrate on making the muscle hard, I can actually force it to contract more and expand (Really!) so that it grows bigger. It don't know how or why but it does and the muscle then feels much stronger. Pretty strange (but cool), huh? :) JanetJan 19 2006 9:37pm Janet you sound incredibly sexy!!!!!!!! Janet FanJan 20 2006 11:53pm How much will it expand? Have you measured this? I imagine it is a confidence builder seeing and feeling your muscle "adapt" to the load and overcome it. This at the same time must have a Psychological effect on him as he feels his muscles fatique and start shaking as they weaken when he can see your bicep swell and also feel your strength. It is interesting to note that women do have superior blood flow into their muscles so it is logical to expect some additional size increase or pump occurring during hard contractions. Please measure this and let us know. As I said before, I had a girlfriend who could do this and it was quite easy to see even when armwrestling. Her bicep was noticeably bigger than mine as soon as it happened and I was quickly beaten. I could never get my bicep to do this. My girlfriend could put her flexed bicep next to mine and force it to grow larger with a very hard contraction. She could do this with a heavy dumbell when she was at her limit of curls, holding the weight and see the muscle expand. Now she could continue to do more curls. When I tried to do this, my bicep grew more and more fatiqued, I could do no more curls and the weight slowly opened my arm up as my bicep trembled and burned. Her muscle would become larger and very vasular and would continue working when this happens while the strength of my bicep dropped off until the weight pulled my arm completely open. I reall believe that conditioned women do have more strength in their muscles on a size for size basis. StanJan 21 2006 11:19am I have longer muscles compared to my brother's. Not long after I started strength training my muscles became much bigger around and larger than my older brother's too. I would like to armwrestle him now because I had him compare his arms to mine and I'm more muscular by far. I was told that me having more muscle length than most people would be helpful in building size and strength. My calves are about two inches longer than his and thigh muscles about three inches. When we flex biceps my muscle extends all the way into the fold of my elbo and his is about two inches shorter. Now mine are thicker than his from weight lifting. I'm 15 years old and he is 17 years old. I would really like to armwrestle but not sure how to ask because he seems embarrised by me having more muscle. JulieJan 21 2006 12:20pm WOMEN OUT NUMBER MEN IN THE GYM BY MORE THAN ONE MILLION NOW... Of the total gym-membership population today, compared with 9 percent (1.5 million) in 1987. The number of women belonging to gyms has risen by 94 percent since 1987, to 17.6 million, while male membership has grown by 95 percent, to 16.1 million, during the same period, according to the International Health, Racquet and Sportsclub Association (IHRSA), an industry trade association based in Boston. AnonymousJan 21 2006 1:16pm Julie, your brother is probably curious about your strength as well. He is your brother so ask him but let him know you won't tell anyone about it. If you can gain his trust in that respect, you will then open the door for further contests, such as wrestling. Good luck. RafeJan 21 2006 6:25pm I finally asked my brother to armwrestle and he agreed! I beat with with both right and left arms three times each. I even let him pull my arm down close to the table to see if I could still bring my arm back up. Armwrestling really pumps the muscles up! He couldn't keep his eyes off of my arm when he struggled against me. I really want to armwrestle more it's fun! My arm didn't get sore but his sure did. JulieJan 28 2006 1:06pm I had read on this board about crushing an apple with your bicep and decided to try this. I've been weight training for about four years now and I have very hard biceps. I looked for small apples and bought a dozen and the fact is they are very hard! After some arm workouts I thought I'd give it a try. It took me several times and I had to hold the apple as I curled against it and when I could finally feel my flexed bicep start to sink into the apple I knew I could do this. After my bicep began to dent the apple it cracked! I had my husband try this and he simply couldn't push his muscle into the apple, instead his bicep flattened out around the apple. He kept trying and flexing hard but the apple pushed into his bicep. When I showed him what I could do he was shocked. I worked on another apple for a few minutes and again I could push my muscle into the apple and keep it up until it split open. I could even open my arm and see the depression my muscle put in it before I crushed it. My husband can't put a dent into the apple at all. I'm stronger than my husband and can beat him at armwrestling but this was proof of how much harder my muscles are. Crushing an apple isn't easy at all but it can be done. I had to really concentrate, flexing as hard as possible and continue to do so flexing several times until my bicep forced into the apple and than it breaks. Not easy. VickyJan 28 2006 1:51pm I had read an article on research about a year ago that was about comparing muscle strength of men and women. It was interesting to read the results of testing bicep strength in several ways. What was an eye opener for me was the fact that when all things were considered such as muscle fiber being the same in both sexes and several strength measurements being the same with both sexes. However when endurance measurements were compared the female muscle was able to contract repeatedly against a load more times and was again able to hold against a load for a far longer time. For an equal amount of muscle the strength was the same but female muscle was far superior over all when muscular endurance was compared. The conclusion was that the femal muscle was in fact much stronger over all and able to perform at almost full strength when male muscle had began to fail loosing about half it's strength from fatique. One can understand how during an armwrestling match the muscular endurance would win so long as her strength is there holding him until his strength is gone. At that point it's all over and the girl's muscles are now much stronger. SandraJan 28 2006 2:32pm 83 percent agree that girls muscles are in fact stronger. I too agree because I have seen to many examples where the muscle strength is greater when comparing between the sexes. Girls are becoming so much stronger now because of training for sports and gym time. Girls have gotten bigger and more muscular in school in the last few years. I'm out done by my girlfriend now when she flexes now. Her muscles are bigger than mine and I know she is stronger. She spends an hour in the weight room at school every day I do think it's sexy but I don't want her to keep getting bigger because she is bigger than me now. We armwrestle sometimes when we are alone and she beats me and then she shows me her muscles. She enjoys comparing her's to mine. I like to see her muscles but I'm not comfortable when I see her's are bigger. AndrewJan 28 2006 2:48pm My sister showed me this poll/board. She is about the same size as her husband, a bit shorter but the same weight. They have been working out together in their home gym for some years. They had the same programme and the same weights when they started. Within half a year my sister could do more reps then my brother-in-law with the same amount of weights. Today they are still about the same weight but my sister is now about 25% stronger than her husband. Her muscles are much harder than his, even if they aren't much bigger. This of course have encouraged me in my own workouts. I am smaller than my husband, 172 cm to his 182 and 71 kgs to his 80. I have been working out some years about 2-3 times a week and he has been swimming 3 times a week. When I feel his body he is not as hard as me and the other day I had to challange him to an armwrestling match. It was a very close match, we were both surprised that I could match his strength. I won with our right hands after some minutes of hard struggling and with the left I was clearly stronger and won after 20 seconds. He was in shock and said he needed to work out with weights again. He also admitted that he spent more time in the sauna than in the pool the mornings he is going for his swims. I have read the comments on this and other boards, it seems that quite a few women like to get strong and that it is very likely that a woman can become stronger than a man if she works out hard. WOMAN POWER. AnnikaJan 30 2006 11:19pm The reason for your harder muscles seems to be the higher amount of muscle fiber contracting and producing power. Research has at times proven that women have a higher percent of muscle fiber that contracts at will. Not to mention much more muscular endurance. When the muscle size is the same, women may in fact be stronger. AnonymousJan 31 2006 6:25pm I read with great interest the sceptics out there who doubt the strength of women. Some of these "macjo" types are totally out of touch with the women today. My wife takes pride in being in shape, working out with weights and accepting being strong and feminine. Yes, we do arm wrestle and yes she is able to defeat me and has done so for over two years. She is forty six years old, a mother and a grandmother to be. She is very competitive, doesn't like to lose, and really enjoys the fact that she can truly win at arm wrestling. Gentlmen, until you have sat across from your wife, felt her strength, and experience your arm going down to defeat, then you may never understand the thrill that you both can realize. Yes, my wife enjoys these matches as much or even more than I do. I congratulate all the women who post to this site, you all winners. RichardFeb 02 2006 4:09pm Richard, I do believe that I know what your wife feels as she defeats you in arm wrestling. We have been married only five years (I'm 28yrs) but my husband challenged me one day top A/W and I was not about to let him win. It took a while but eventuually his arm was flat against the table and I was excited. Heck, I wanted to do it again and again, which we did until he admitted that I was really strong, in fact, stronger than him. I realize the excitment of being a strong female and I am not about to let that feeling go away. Face it guys, we are here to stay! Get used to a strong woman in your life - never under estimate the muscles of a woman. CaroleFeb 03 2006 12:43pm FROM AN OTHER FORUM... "I have noticed an increased number of females who are in better condition than their male counterparts in a lot of the newer recruits. I'm military for anyone who has never read anything that I have posted before (hence the term recruits) I think video games are the cause of it :-(. 9 out of 10 of the new female recruits on average whom I have spoke with were involved in some type of sport growing up. Softball, Soccer, and Track/Field are the most common sports from what I have seen. Most guys on the other hand were more involved with HALO or MADDEN football while growing up. Just an observation that I have made, although I can't imagine women catching up in upper body power for a long time. (I only see about 1 in 10 females who can do 40 or more legit push-ups, in contrast just about 95% of the male recruits can do at the bare,and I do mean bare minimum 40 push ups.) Total body conditioning is different, however I have came across some amazingly fast female distant runners, as well as women who can do an unreal amount of sit-ups/crunches. Overall an increased number of female recruits I have seen recently have surpassed most of their male counterparts in terms of overall condition." THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE I HAD READ SOME TIME BACK IN (TIME MAGAZINE) THAT AFTER ONLY 6 MONTHS OF STRENGTH TRAINING, MILITARY WOMEN PROVED TO BE STRONGER ON AVERAGE THEN FRESH MALE RECRUTES. AnonymousFeb 04 2006 11:33am Just as a note - in the morning just out of bed, six days a week, my wife does her excercises: one hundred situps and fifty pushups. These are done in strict fashion and on her toes and finger tips (not the palms of the hands). When ever I try to match her in pushups she watches me do my 20-30 at best, then has me count as she does her fifty. For a woman at 46 years, it can explain why she is so fit. She often teases me as we arm wrestle, that there is no way I can defeat someone who can do all those pushups. She's right! RichardFeb 04 2006 11:51am I really love reading all of these posts about how some of you guys appreciate muscular women. I never would have believed it from the negative reactions that I often get from guys! Here?s another example of what girls with muscle have to put up with - I went with a few female friends to a bar after work the other night (I was wearing a nice sleeveless sweater which I knew would be a problem). Anyway, we were having a drink at the bar (I usually don?t go to bars much or drink, but we were celebrating a friend?s job promotion) and I felt somebody touching (actually, playing with) my ponytail. I turned around it it was some guy (who was making like it was an accident). He then smiled at me and was going to ask me something but since I had my arm straight on the bar stool to balance myself when I turned around, my tricep muscle was flexed and he saw this and it surpised him (I have pretty large and defined triceps). Well, he started to say something and just said "excuse me" and left when he saw my muscles. When we left later I saw him pointing at me and I heard a friend of his say something like: "There?s no way you could handle her, bro..." or something like that. Anyway, I left and that was it - but it goes to show that you guys which like musclegirls are pretty much still in the minority but maybe it will change? I don?t know! Oh, I armwrestled another guy the other day (I NEVER ask guys to do this, but if they ask me enough, sometimes I give in just to make them stop asking). Sometimes it's a real tough decision as to whether to go sleeveless or not not since it just seems to bring on the comments, armwrestling invitations, and so on. Anyway, I was at one of those "quickie oil change" places (I know nothing about cars, oil, etc.) and was sitting quietly in the waiting area reading a magazine (I was wearing a nice white cotton sleeveless blouse which, unfortunately, was bought before I starting lifting and was a little small - it actually made my muscles look pretty big which was probably a mistake). I noticed that one of the guys standing the counter kept looking at me (he was wearing a shirt with his name on it but he had the sleeves cut off and his arms looked about the same size as mine). But, he seemed pretty proud of them and kept sort of "lifting" stuff and making his bicep muscle flex as if to show me that "he had muscles too!" He then came over and asked me about changing my air filter but, when I said that I didn?t need one - he just came out and told me that I looked "cool" and looked like I was "buffed" (I?m not sure whether or not that was a compliment but I just smiled at him and said "Thanks"). He then said "Do you work out?" and I said "Yes" and he then said, "I?ll bet that I?m still stronger than you" and he pulled his arm up to his side and flexed his muscle. (Can you believe it?) I told him that I thought that his muscle was "impressive" (he had a nice muscle even though mine was bigger but I didn?t say anything). He asked me to flex and I told him "No" but thanked him for asking. However, he asked me about 5 times after that to armwrestle and each time I told him "No, but thanks for asking" and so on. The last time he asked, I said "No"and he said "Why not?" I then told him (with a smile and trying to be totally nice) that "Because you are a guy, I?m sure that you could beat me". I hoped that this would convince him, but he said "I just wanna see how strong you are - It?ll be fun", etc. etc. I was about to say "No" again, but he then said that if I wrestled him, he would give me 10 bucks off my oil change!!! Well, that changed everything for me (I was a little short on cash that day) so I told him that I would. So, we went up to the front counter and locked hands and one of his co-workers counted to three. Before we started, though, he flexed his muscle when we had our arms on the table and, when I saw him do this, I flexed my muscle too. Well, I thought that his jaw would hit the table when my muscle pushed up higher than his!!! Anyway, we started the match and for awhile we were both locked-up and our arms were straight up and down (I was a little distracted because the armhole of my shirt was binding against my shoulder muscle and it hurt a little). Anyway, I regained my "composure" and, just like my other matches, I saw his muscle tremble a little and start to weaken. However, my muscle began to expand and grow bigger as it has in the past and a few veins started to show (this totally freaked him). As my muscle grew larger, I felt more strength and began to push his hand down. Finally, I pushed his down onto the table and ended the match, but (because he was so persistent about the whole thing), I kept his hand pinned to the table and, for a short while, he couldn?t get it loose!! He was not a happy camper and then I let his hand up and, after paying for my oil change (and getting my 10 bucks off), I left. He looked so mad that, I don?t think that I?ll ever go back there for an oil change (unless I want sugar poured into my engine)! So that?s today?s news. Oh and one last item - Stan, you had asked me how much I could get my muscle to expand when I do a "hard forced contraction". While it was hard to measure, I have some info. for you. I curled a dumbbell until my muscle was nearly totally fatigued and then flexed and measured with a tape measure (I borrowed one of those "slotted tape measure" things from the gym). I then kept it on my muscle (while flexed) and REALLY concentrated to force the muscle to contract more. After about 4 - 5 seconds of continuous hard flexing, the muscle started to expand (which is so cool and mysterious to me) and I measured a size increase of about 1/2 to slightly under 3/4 of an inch. At the same time, my muscle felt harder to the touch, stronger, and fairly warm (I?m not sure about why it felt warmer, but it did). Any thoughts on this stuff would be cool and any similar experiences from other "strong girls" would be fun to hear! By the way, I?m sorry that it sometimes takes me so long to answer E-mails - I?ll try harder (I?m "computer challenged" sometimes). biggermusclesthanhis@yahoo.com JanetFeb 04 2006 6:30pm The Y (male) chromosome is much smaller and only contains a fraction of the genes. The X (female) has about 1,000. Today, the Y chromosome has less than 80 genes. But long ago they were both the same size. Researchers have found that, over the millennia, the Y chromosome has lost most of it genes. Some Researchers think that this is still going on today and in time their will be no Y chromosome. Some even think it could happen in as little as 150,000 years. No Y chromosome would mean no more human males. Women have a vast gene pool to pull from when it comes to muscles. AnonymousFeb 04 2006 9:23pm Janet, I understand what you are saying. When I was twelve, my older brother and I got on this "who is stronger" kick. Anyway he beat me at push-ups, pull-ups, and armwrestling for a little while. But as we continued to have contests, I started to gain on him and noticed that he wasn't gaining as fast as I was. I remember doing push-ups and pull-ups on our clothes line T shaped poll when ever I could. I even filled up a five gallon bucket half way and did curls and kept adding more water once in a while and I had weighed the bucket and it was about thirty pounds when nearly full. I had gotten to the point that I was catching up to my brother and he knew it too and I was able to curl the full bucket ten times. Also I began to notice veins pushing out from my muscles when curling the water bucket and my muscles looked like they were as large or larger than his by end of summer when I turned thirteen. I finally beat him at pull-ups and push-ups but we had yet to armwrestle as he had always won. When we did armwrestle the viens stood out of my bicep and the muscle texture became visible and began to bulge on the top and on the front side and we could see this happen, parts of the muscle pushed outward more than when we had started. I beat him slowly but I was now stronger. We again measured our arms and his upper arm was a fraction larger but I just kept up the contraction of my upper arm until the bicep felt like it cramped and ached. At that point it did hurt a little because I had flexed so hard but the veins bulged and again the muscle fiber was stretching against my skin and now visible. I didn't let up and watched my aching bicep expand and stretch the tape measure about a half inch and bigger than my brother's arm. I thought this was both fantastic and strange and noticed that my skin was a little flushed pink followed by lots of little tiny veins on the surface of the muscle and hard as a rock and at least a half inch bigger than his. My brother was dumb founded and began to say words I won't repeat. My bicep was bigger than his but had a cramp in it as well and I had to stretch my arm out and rub it and than I flexed again and it was still bigger. By the time I was about fourteen my upper arm flexed was almost fifteen inches and at least an inch bigger than his. I have since been a gym rat as I grew up and kept in shape. I'm stronger than most men my size at the gym but not all. ShawnaFeb 06 2006 6:15pm Interesting comments girls. I doubt that they are all 100% true, but they are fun to read nonetheless. I'm 6ft tall and 180 lbs, kinda skinny with narrow shoulders. My wife is 5ft 8 and 150 lbs with broad shoulders for a woman. We're both 32. She's been working out for several years, while I hardly do anything physical. Despite using our home gym, she hasn't made any substantial gains in her muscles. She's has a naturally athletic figure, so I'm sure that she could do better if she pressed herself harder. I would like to convince her to be more like you girls. Any suggestions on how to get her there? She's just so damn passive. Dave PFeb 09 2006 12:35pm Although your wife is not gaining muscle as you would like, you didn't mention whether you have found out how strong she is from her athletic back ground. You may find that she is indeed stronger than you think, then she can decide just how much more she wants to pursue weight training. I am also athletic and have always pursued sports, especially tennis. I found that upper body work, hence pushups, etc. helped my stamina and ability to improve my strokes, therefore, I have enjoyed my daily exercise routines. Once Cliff and I began experiencing tests of strength then I found how his excitment and then my interest peaked as I made him happy. It probably boils down to communication, explaing how much you enjoy a strong wife and how much fun it could be for you both. Passive women can also be strong women. DonnaFeb 09 2006 12:56pm Thanks Donna. I should have explained better. My wife has a rather athletic figure (big boned, wide shoulders) but she was not an athlete. Like I said, she is just too passive. She is a pretty good tennis player, but she simply isn't competitive enough to excel. She's definitely not that strong, despite her workouts. We've played around wrestling in bed, and she's no match for me at all. I was thinking about offering to get her a personal trainer - or suggest Judo classes or something. If she could even give me a run for my money in arm-wrestling, I'd find it extremely sexy. Dave PFeb 10 2006 7:13am This is a touchy subject. It is my opinion that it is your wife's call as to how much, if any, exercis she wishes to pursue. I personally would not be offended if my husband had explained to me that an arm wrestle would be fun and then I could make the decision if I wanted to work harder at become stronger. For me, it has been a mutual appreciation, for others it may be a real drag. Maybe even ask her to read some of these postings, they may open up a line of positive dialog. I realize that some of these comments are a bit far out, but most of them are done with a good heart in mind. Bottom line, if she is too resistant then let it pass for a while. Good Luck! DonnaFeb 10 2006 9:28am That?s SO AWESOME Shawna (about how you can make your muscle expand)! Your experience with your bicep muscle is EXACTLY the same as mine and it is interesting to hear from someone else that can do this. It looks like we both can get the same muscle expansion during a forced contraction of the muscle (about 1/2 inch) . I checked this out again the other night while doing some curls on a preacher bench (I had a friend of mine from the gym measure it because he didn?t believe me!) On the last rep that I could do (using my right arm), I held the weight up and wouldn?t let it drop and the muscle really began to burn. However, after about 3 seconds, the burning lessened and we both watched as the muscle bulged and expanded (and that?s when he measured it). It grew just slightly more than 1/2 inch and I could do 4 more reps! I would imagine that most guys would really find this to be less-than-attractive and totally "unfeminine" on a girl (and I?ll probably get some nasty E-mails), but it is cool so see that there are other girls that can do this (I wonder if it is a "girl-thing"???) Anyway, I have received 2 E-mails from other girls that observed this with their muscles, so I guess that it is not just me!! I still think that this message board is kind of an "island" when it comes to how most guys feel about muscular females. I think that I get a snide comment about my physique at least twice times a week (and I REALLY do not try to show off and don?t wear skimpy clothes a lot). Just yesterday in the gym, I was waiting to use the leg extension machine (a guy about my age and size was using it but his legs were not really very big). So, I went to use it after he was done and increased the weight by a pretty heavy amount since my thighs are pretty large (they were fairly big even before I starting lifting - genetic, I?m sure). However, they are not fat and have with good separation of the muscle groups (they are really strong, too). My legs were much larger than the guy?s and when he saw them (and watched me lifting more weight with my leg muscles bulging), he just walked away and I could faintly hear him say the "B" word and, for some reason, it made me feel rotten even though I didn?t do anything. When it comes to dates, I?ll tell you guys that I got a lot more dates before bodybuilding than after. I used to get "hit on" a fair amount when I went to a bar, club, etc. before I began weightlifting (many guys have complimented me on my face/hair which I take great effort to keep looking good), but the guys? attitudes have really changed since I got muscular. This is why I sometimes try to cover up, but I still look kinda big even under the clothes. So, I still think that the muscular look on women is a turn off for most guys, but I am really learning a lot on this board (that there are guys were really like it which is kind of a relief). One thing that has amazed me is this whole "lift and carry" thing. Maybe I?m just not very knowledgeable about the whole thing (I honestly never knew anything about it before I started to get on the ?net). But what has truly amazed me is the number of guys (especially at the gym when it is quiet and not many people are around) who have asked me if I was strong enough to lift them up and carry them. I actually had a guy ask me that at a party once!!!! I never imagined that a guy would want a girl to lift him up and carry him around, but I guess that some guys are crazy about this! I?ve never done it before, but maybe someday I?ll try it if I like the guy and he wants me to do it. Having led a pretty conservative life in a small town, I always thought that it was the guy who was supposted to carry the girl (y?know - "over the threshold", etc, etc). So, I?m really learning a lot from this board and the Internet in general! I?d love to hear from any girls with similar experiences and it is cool to get your E-mails. biggermusclesthanhis@yahoo.com JanetFeb 11 2006 1:21am a few years ago I had suspected that my sister could be stronger than me. She is on a swim team and works out. We were facing a white wall out back of our swimming pool with sun sun behind us and I made a joke and started flexing my arms while watching the shadow on the wall. My sister started doing the same thing and it was easy to see she has bigger shoulders and arm muscles in the shadow. She has never flexed to show me and when we could see the shadows I said she looked like a bodybuilder we started to check out our muscles. Now she wants to wrestle but I said maybe later. I somehow thought girls would have weaker muscles even if they might be bigger because of hormones of body fat. Would she have more strength by having muscles the same size? Her's look bigger but I'm not sure. I'll admit that I'm afraid she could win after we started to compare arms and legs and flexing muscles. CarlosFeb 11 2006 2:41pm Carlos, girls do have stronger muscles. Why don't you go wrestle her and find out for your self? If her muscles have grown bigger from swimming and are the size of yours, try to wrestle her and you will find out the truth. It is clear that you want to know if she is stronger than you are and the fact is there is only one way to find out. If she wants to wrestle than go ahead and see who is stronger. AnonymousFeb 12 2006 4:16pm Janet, how big are your muscles and just how strong are you?? You sound really hot! AnonymousFeb 13 2006 5:35am It sounds like women can be stronger than alot of men if they just spend some time in the gym and train hard...Janet and Shawna are living proof...if more and more women start lifting, I don't think there will be a weaker sex. AnonymousFeb 13 2006 5:40am Janet, it has been enjoable reading your comments regarding strong women and their roles with the men in their lives. I am certainly not in your league, but at my age I am toned, hard and strong. My lower body has been strong for years, from much tennis, but I have increased my upper body work and now am proud to say that I am a totally strong woman. My husband must admit that after our arm wrestling matches, he hasn't won a match in many months, that he is inferior to me and not able to match my strength. Our extended family knows about my prowess, has watched our matches and approves of my winning. I truly love my husband, but I also love how strong I have become and I make no excuses for my superiority in the relationship. Now when I flex in victory, Cliff must acknowledge that I am stronger than he is and I am indeed a member of the stronger sex. Years ago I would of never had such thoughts, but now, that's the way it is. DonnaFeb 24 2006 4:13pm Some results from 2006 Oregon-Washington High School 800 meter running... Girls "Cori Moore" 2:17.20 and boys "Alberto Sanchez" 2:19.87 AnonymousFeb 25 2006 12:16pm there all on drugs AnonymousFeb 27 2006 8:07am There all on drugs? What an idiot. DebraFeb 27 2006 6:26pm Donna, thank you for your recent posting.I would be interested to hear more what your extended family thinks - I have been dominating my husband Barry more and more in wrestling and was wondering whether to make that known to the wider family. What has your experience been on this? Also, has your physical strength made you more the boss in the relationship - I am finding Barry looks to me for leadership more and more but what is your experience of this? RachelFeb 28 2006 10:11pm Rachel, I can only speak from our own experiences. Since we generally compete on a fun level, it wasn't that difficult to spread the word that I was indeed the stronger one in our relationship. I am a competitive person and do not like to lose, therefore, I found it fun and interesting to share my victories with friends and family. Cliff is cool about it all and for the most part the family has been entertained by the concept of the wife beating her husband in arm restling. I admit that the teasing, taunting and general superiority thing comes when we are alone. In business, Cliff still has all the say, I do my thing, he does his. However, at home, I am takaing the lead in many of our choices, he seems to enjoy my leadership and I enjoy setting the pace in our lives. My advise, remain strong, never let him win and always stand tall - you earned those muscles, don't shrink from displaying them, any time, any where! DonnaMar 03 2006 3:22pm I can beat my boyfriend at armwrestling by holding out until he gets weaker for about three or four minutes. we are about the smame in strength and our muscles are the same size but he will weaken faster and that's how I beat him every time. I'm thinking I could do this at wrestling too. CathyMar 04 2006 11:03am Have any of you girls who have beat guys at armwrestling and wrestling tried boxing them? A friend of mine who boxes says girls can't punch very hard and they can't take handle as hard or as many punches as guys. He's beat bigger and more experienced girls. boxfanMar 05 2006 8:32am I'd love to see a slugfest between Anne Wolf and that dude. Has the fight been rescheduled? AnonymousMar 06 2006 10:17pm Face it - even if they're strong, female bodies are soft, so they can't take much of a punch. Plus female reaction times are slower, so they can't block either. Result: the girl goes down unless the guy doesn't know how to fight or throws the fight. realistMar 09 2006 9:52am My girlfriend can make her bicep expand or swell larger after holding a hard flex. I've read this on here and another forum. I would like to know how she can do this. I have continued to try to do this and nothing happens. When she flexes the muscle is rock hard and she says she is flexing as hard as she can. She holds it as hard as possible and after about five to ten seconds the muscle will pump up bigger. I can feel it with my hand and measure it as much as a half inch. She is very strong and I have no idea what causes her muscles to get bigger or how she can do this. I have tried this with a dumbell weight and hold the weight until I can no longer. She can do this and make her bicep expand before her muscle weakens and hold the weight longer. This is not just pumping the muscle up, this is different. Her muscle becomes much bigger momentarily Any ideas as to why her muscle can do such an amazing thing? I'd like to know the answer. SeanMar 11 2006 10:57am Maybe girls could be stronger if they had the samd muscle mass, but how many girls have the same muscle mass as boys? Maybe in the legs. But I've never seen a girl with pecs that match a boys!! boymuscleMar 18 2006 5:21am Sean, I can only suggest that what you see happen in her muscles is the remaining muscle fiber contracting. Not all of her muscle fibers are contracting until the muscle if about to give out and her muscles are expanding more at that point as all of the muscle contracts. If her muscles become harder when this happens is convincing about the high percent of fiber contracting. If her muscles are harder than yours, it's pobably proof that she has a higher amount of fibers contracting or a stronger contraction. I'd say both. I'd bet she is stronger than you are. Just my guess. AnonymousMar 20 2006 6:34pm Well it happened much quicker than even I expected. Cliff and I visited Peggy (Cliff's daughter) and her husband in southern California last week. Ever since our sking trip she has been more focused on improving her strength. She is just six feet tall, but Cliff says always had been on the slender side - trim but not showing muscle. Well, as we sat by the pool at happy hour I noticed that her arms and shoulders were defintely showing improved definition. She explained that after our arm wrestling experience on the ski trip that she too wanted to see how it felt - so she joined a gym and has been lifting ever since. I smiled at her and let her know that I thought it must be time to see if Jack had recognized his wife's new stature. With that she becokened him over to the table by the pool and placed her arm on the table. Peggy explained to him that now was the time to see if she could match my success. She even dared him to see if he could beat her at arm wrestling. I could see in his eyes that as he looked at her, her swim suit reealing a much more defined woman, he wasn't sure what was in store. I started them off and Jack really tried to pull her arm down, but she remained steady, and as the seconds rolled on she never releaved the pressure. Neither moved, yet Jack was besoming aggitateed, he assumed he could over come her defense, yet no luck. As I began encouraging her, Cliff watching, she sensed Jack faltering. As she claimed she could feel him weakening, she put every thing into a triumph surge. Yep, he withered and she pulled his arm down, slowly, but with a distitintic purpose. Peggy slowly stood up, and at her height, she was impressive. She told Jack that now two women in her family were strong, stronger than their husbands. As she looked over at her dad, I could see that soon she would also challenge him, hey, strong wives, stronger daughters. It was great fun and I was so proud on my daughter-in-law, I truly believe that Jack will never be able to gain the advantage again. Wives rule! DonnaMar 21 2006 5:33pm Nice to read your postings Donna. I think strength in a woman is a very positive thing, I mean both mental and physical strength. I am a 6 feet man of slender build, weighing in at 132 lbs! I have never been able to build any serious muscle and I am clearly weaker than the average male. I met my wife two years ago and already the first nighe she showed me that she was stronger than me. When we came to the hotel after the wedding I tried to carry her up the stairs to our room but I couldn't. She just smiled and lifted me up easily. I was a bit shocked to be honest. It is not strange however if you can see my beutiful wife, she is an inch shorter than me but she has rather big muscles after a very active life with sports, weight lifting, boxing etc. She is about 40 lbs heavier than me. She knew already when she met me that she was a lot stronger, for her this is not a big deal and it's not for me either, anymore I need to add. This board has helped me a lot. JoachimMar 24 2006 12:21am Donna,thank you for the posting. Do you have any idea how Jack felt about it afterwards? And what did Cliff think seeing this extra proof that th men of the family were the weaker sex? rachelMar 30 2006 10:08pm Another fantasy thread... lolMar 31 2006 10:57am some guys here are either very childish or unaware of the growing number of women becoming stronger and stronger, and yes, often stronger than men! I go to a gym 3-4 a week and I can assure all men here that there are many women there stronger than men at the same gym AND these men are working out! The couch potato man wouldn't stand a chance against these strong women. I am not one of the stronger women at the gym but I am still stronger than some men. I am quite a bit stronger than my husband when it comes to legs. I can lift almost 75% more weight with my legs and still do more reps than him. Many women have strong legs and I am sure if you compare a man and a woman of similar size, the woman has stronger legs. getting strongerApr 01 2006 4:30am Why are there so many polls about the subject of female muscles? Why are so many people so fascinated by this subject? Anonymous 101Apr 01 2006 8:27pm It is because 'girls' are proving to be much stronger physically then cultural beliefs held for so long. Girls and women are becoming physically stronger and more muscular. Mostly through sports. This is a fact that won't go away. The degree to witch this is happening is starting to overlap male strength more and more until we woke up one day to find boys and men physically challenged by this and loosing ground. Science and research at the same time is finding that female muscle has some advantages over male. Men are larger but even that ratio may be changing when you see the size of women in sports. Everyone knows something is happening and the majority side with women being physically stronger now. I believe it is because when everything is considered including size and endurance that women prove to be stronger pound for pound. The subject is new & interesting to many obvouisly. AnonymousApr 01 2006 10:51pm WOW! I can't believe the muscles on these girls. I'm 16 and lift weights but my muscles even can't come close to these girls in the videos. I have seen a girl my age with huge muscles in person not long ago. She works out every day and has more muscles than I do and I can't help but think about her strength. She uses her brother's weight set and is stronger than he is. He's a friend of mine and seeing his sister's muscles drives me crazy! She makes me look bad but I want to see her muscles when ever I can. RichardApr 02 2006 1:33pm Geeze, my muscles don't expand anywhere near that much. Those girl's muscles grow and grow as they flex! My bicep just gets shorter and hardly swell at all compared to these girl's muscles. Puts my biceps to shame for sure. Thanks for the reality check. DaleApr 02 2006 1:43pm That's the second video I've seen of a girl crushing an apple with her muscles. My girl friend has built her muscles up to the same size as mine in far less time it took me and her's are harder. We have both tried the apple crushing and she wins. With both Gala & Fuji apples I just can't crush them! I even pulled my forearm with my other hand like a nut cracker but it's to painful and left a bruse! My girl friend on the other hand will hold the apple in place with one hand and curl her arm and flex, sometimes it takes a minute but she will crush it. I can watch her bicep start pushing into the apple and then it explodes. Now think about this, I stood on top of one of these apples and it wasn't until I bounced a few times that the apple gave and crushed. I weigh 190 lbs! So my girl's muscles is pressing into the apples with at least 190 lbs of pressure! I stood on top of two apples and both times nothing happened until I bounced (not jump) but I still had to do something to make it crush while her muscles are so hard they just crush those apples! I'm a firm believer that there is something about female muscle that makes them superior. They may not be as big sometimes so they aren't as strong as a man's but I do believe the female muscle is for a fact stronger in every way but rarely as large as men's My girl friend does have muscles as large as mine now through hard workouts and can beat me at arm wrestling now. Last year she couldn't beat me, now she can. We work out together and looking at her progress next to mine I no longer doubt female muscle. She has a bet with me that she will be stronger than I am before the year is over and we're just about even now. EdApr 02 2006 2:59pm Us men must wake up and start working out. Being weaker than girls is disgraceful. AnonymousApr 04 2006 8:48pm Ed I understand, I have a girlfriend I workout with and for her size she's very strong. She gains muscles fast and even though I'm four inches taller her muscle measurements are bigger around in the legs than mine and withing a quarter inch in her arms which is nothing. She simply gained on me faster than I put on muscle or gain strength. Her muscles are hard as rock and more so then my own. If this continues like this, I realize she will become stronger and she might have larger muscles. She is as big or bigger boned than I am but not as tall. DJApr 11 2006 12:23pm I can't beat that muscle of her's, It's much larger than mine and it does expand more and more as she flexes. My girlfriend's biceps expand more and more as she flexes while not as large as the video girl, her's also become larger as she flexes or exercises while my muscles do not. Interesting, thank you for posting that. I've become interested in this subject for that very reason. SteveApr 19 2006 5:37pm Steve, I also find it fascinating how many females can get their muscles to expand and grow bigger just when you think that they are totally fatigued. I have a female friend that works out at my gym and sometimes we do preacher bench curls together. She has been lifting for years and has incredible biceps (bigger than mine). But, when she benches and you think that she is just about out of strength, I have actually watched her bicep muscle grow bigger and she gets more strength to do a few more reps. The muscle thickens and grows and she has more power. It is amazing! (My muscle simply will not do this at all). It is all very interesting and I would love to know that is happening! femuscle admirerApr 20 2006 2:11am There have been a few posts on here about personal observation of women/girls muscles (biceps in particular)that expand even more after first flexing. In the video it can be clearly seen that her bicep becomes larger than in her first flex. The muscle continues to become bigger until the last time she flexes the muscle expands so much larger! I can only guess that it is at least one inch more! I can't say it is drugs but I agree that she possesses genetics that very few people have both men and women. Super muscles! Observer ObserverApr 20 2006 6:32pm femuscle admirer, as I stated above, my girlfiend's biceps do become larger as you discribed and I see I'm not the only one to notice this phenomenon. During curling it is really noticable. Her muscle will really swell and expand so much more at the point of failure, at that point she will gain strength and continue to work the muscle. I have no idea how her muscles can do this. My biceps do not do this at all and it's not just pumping up from a workout, the muscle becomes larger at that point and puts out more power. SteveApr 20 2006 6:42pm In the first comparison the girl's bicep is bigger and get's even bigger than his as she continues flexing! In the second comparison it is close but she has an advantage in muscle I would say and her bicep pumps up more than his when she flexes. LindaApr 22 2006 9:44am I want web addresses where I can see women getting beat up by stronger men. AnonymousApr 22 2006 7:39pm Last season I watched a girl take runner up in a highschool wrestling tournament my friend was in. It would have been more embarrising if he was the only guy to loose! I have really become attracted to the more athletic girls now. The most interesting part was this. One of the wrestler's father was boasting about his son to a couple in the stands near me and the guy had a booming voice. When his son wrestled this girl I could tell she was stronger. I really think it takes both skill and strength to win and if you lack one or the other against your opponent you may have a disavantage. I'll admitt that I began to enjoy watching her beat boys. In the match with the boy's father watching I could just see the look in that man's face that he couldn't believe his eyes! A girl was beating his son at wrestling was hard to take. The thing was I could see the girl's muscles and her shoulders were like strands of muscle flexing. She had this boy from behind with her legs wrapped around him while she had his arms pulled behind his back and down he went to the matt. She just continued to pull his arms behind his back and you could see her muscles as she pushed his face into the matt and pinned his shoulders down. The boy's father just melted in his seat as the match continued. Like I said I enjoyed it and her muscles were a little bigger than most of the boys. She did finally loose in the end but even then it was very close. Something I noticed is that she never looked as tired as the boys did. To see her muscles contract and the boy's arms give out to her strength was exciting to me. I know it isn't to some and I understand the embarrisment to the men and boys but I was mesmerized by it as it seemed like slow motion sometimes. I can't help but watch the girl's muscles. They aren't weak or under developed at all. RichardApr 24 2006 5:56pm Janet Faraone Sets 123 lb Class World Record With 320 Pound Bench! Janet Faraone nailed a 320 pound bench press on Saturday in the APF Metal Militia Bench Wars in Lake George, New York to set a new all-time world record in the 123 pound class. Her lift surpassed the mark of 309 pounds held by Tamara Althaus. Faraone also made her opener at 275 and second at 310. Submitted on April 17, 2006 powerliftingwatch AnonymousApr 24 2006 6:37pm Sorry about the duplication - I don't know why it does this!!! femuscle admirerApr 26 2006 12:49am I'm wondering about this subject now because my sister (through sports) is becoming so strong. She is now able to do upside down push ups with her feet against the wall! She weighs 142 lbs. BrianApr 30 2006 10:37am Brian, how old is your sister, and how tall? What sport is she in? By the way, Brian, you should start an emergency workout program or risk getting beat up by your sister. AnonymousApr 30 2006 9:05pm She's 16 at 5ft 6in. and I'm a year older. She is in gymnastics and swimming. I tried that push up and couldn't. She can do four but I'm going to work on more of it for sure. Thanks BrianMay 01 2006 8:33pm The female muscle expansion is easy to see in that first video and is incredible! Proof for those that doubt what was posted by others on here. JanetMay 01 2006 8:43pm Brian, thanks for answering my question. I suspected that your sister was in gymnastics because that sport creates more muscular women than any other sport, except for bodybuilding. What do your sister's calves look like? Anonymous and CuriousMay 01 2006 9:56pm My sister has big calves and muscles. If she stands just normal with her feet together, her calf muscles push against each other. She has lots of strength! BrianMay 05 2006 10:42pm It's a known fact that women have better blood flow into the muscles. I've noticed that my girlfriend can pump her muscles up in the gym from a cold measurement to a worked and flexed measurement of 3" expansion. That's twice what my biceps expand! She is very difficult to beat at armwrestling and has beat me before and like someone said, I have to beat her right from the start or she will win. She is getting harder to beat though because it's taking longer and longer to put her arm down and when I can't do it, she can do it sometimes. TedMay 06 2006 8:44am What's making this interesting is that science is showing that women have stronger muscles. Men have larger muscles on average but now women are building their muscles up through sports and the gym to the point that their muscle size is as large as most men or even larger, giving the woman a big advantage in strength. There are increasing numbers of muscular women and their muscularity is increasing. There are women at my gym that are more muscular than front page women bodybuilders of 25 years ago. AnonymousMay 06 2006 8:52am Ted, I have a casual girl-friend who hase been going to the gym for 6 years. We are just friends and go out for a good time now and then but nothing serious. Anyway as hard as this is to believe with actually see for yourself, her biceps will expand over 4 1/2 inches from cold relaxed and arm out straight to pumped and flexed after a workout! After pumping the muscles up she can flex and contract the muscle several times like in those videos posted on here. When she does that, the muscle gets bigger and a clear seperation can be seen between her main bicep and the peak. Now the top or peak of her bicep can be seen tightening and becoming striated and grow larger as she holds the contraction. She says she can "feel" that part of her muscle and as she continues to consentrait on contracting the muscle it continues to expand up until her peak has become the largest part of her bicep! That is where so much girth is now part of her upper arm. She will straighten her arm several times and contract and it now her peak looks like a muscle on top of a muscle. This is completely different in size and appearance from before a workout. Now she can make her bicep real big when she flexes and again she says she can feel that section of muscle and it becomes easy to increase it's size when flexing. She will hold the flex and make the peak swell up and do it right in front of me repeatedly by stretching her arm out and then curling and flexing, holding it there and pushing the top part of the muscle up more and more within about four or five seconds. I can't help but be amazed by this! I ask her when I can to show me this trick and her muscles seem like they're getting bigger from the last time. She mentioned that the muscle is becoming much more responsive to doing that and is getting a little bigger every time when she does this more often. I can not get my bicep to even remotely show anything like that or so much size increase at all. besides that, the difference in the striations can be seen in her muscles and mine. I can see mine and little changes are shown after a workout or flexed. By comparison, her's will show the fibers moving, contracting and the strands of fibers thickening as the muscle is pumped up. It amazes me and that's why I had to say something and would like to read more on this myself. On top of all that, I do really like her but we remain just good friends. AllenMay 06 2006 10:37am Has anyone noticed that 90 percent of the TV exercise shows are hosted by women? Also how muscular these hosts have become? My stocky wife has been getting up in the morning and exerciseing with the TV shows and weight lifting for more than a year. I was shocked and embarrised when she insited on comparing flexed muscles. Her's are bigger than mine. I didn't realize it until she had me flex and compare biceps, calves, shoulders, and start flexing next to her in the mirror. She wants to wrestle me now because of this and although I'm taller, she does have some advantage now I guess in her developed muscles. RyanMay 07 2006 9:45am That's pretty good with great definition but I have seen girl ball players with bigger arm muscles than their coaches and their brothers. Girls are usually bigger and stronger at age twelve and now they work out for sports just like boys. PamMay 11 2006 11:02pm The fact remains that male muscles loose about 12 percent more strength during the course of heavy workouts compared to female muscles. When a female has the same muscle size she will have more power overall, along with more endurance as much as 75 percent more. Fact is women can build muscle size. AnonymousMay 12 2006 10:27pm I've been reading about this for a month and starting to wonder about this for sure. I'm 15 years old and a year older than my sister. Our parents bought a workout machine and weights last December and my sister and I use it about four or five days a week. My arms when I started were 13 1/2 inches and her's 13. I have only added a little more than 1/4 inch since I started while my sister's arms are now 14 1/4 inches flexed after a workout. My mom buys her supplements and protien stuff and she is getting muscles. At first it didn't bother me but now I admitt it does. Her calves are 1 1/2 inches bigger than mine now and she looks more muscular then me. Our mom even says that she is stronger and more athletic. Her biceps were a half inch smaller last year and are a half inch bigger than mine are right now. Is this normal? I really don't know. Our mom says a girl will grow faster at our age. WadeMay 21 2006 11:39am Wade, why is your mother buying muscle supplements for your sister, but not for you? I suggest that you speak to your mother and request that this injustice be corrected. 2006/05/21May 21 2006 3:17pm www.likelike.com/poll.elephant?poll_id=2550 AnonymousMay 25 2006 2:53pm Well, I'm baaaaaaak as they say. This is Janet (the bodybuilder girl that used to post here) and I just thought that I would say "Hi" since it's been so long. I am simply stunned at the number of E-mails that I've gotten from cool guys that really appreciate a muscular girl (I've also gotten a few "kookie" ones, some of which are actually kind of fun to read!) Anyway, it really makes me feel good to know that there are guys out there who actually like muscles on females and it has REALLY motivated me to train much harder. I've made some good gains in the last 2 - 3 months and have gotten MUCH stronger, too. :) I tend to train late at nite at my gym in order to avoid some not-too-pleasant comments and looks from the guys there (I get a lot) and it helps me to concentrate better when nobody is looking at me. First of all, I hit my 200 lb. bench goal a few weeks ago!!! (One really good rep with perfect form and one sloppy one where I almost slipped off the bench!). I am a pretty decent bencher (I don't mean to brag or anything) and I can pump out some pretty good-form reps (8 - 9) at 185 for and 195 for about 3 reps (2 good ones and one sloppy one). Heavy benching really works for me and I've added about 3/4 inch to my chest in the last 2 months which doesn't sound like much, but for girl, I'm very happy with it. My thighs are really getting big (I don't know if that's good or not since most guys I know seem to really hate big thighs on women), but at least mine are defined since I watch my diet pretty closely. Right now, my thighs measure around 26 inches when REALLY pumped and about 25 1/4 or 25 1/2 inches normally. I can equal or outdo most of the guys in the gym (except the really big guys) where legs are concerned and I can "rack" the entire leg extension machine. Many of the guys tend to freak when they see me doing this, especially if they can't do it (which, again, is why I go late at night). I've had many of you guys ask about my biceps and I've really made progress doing heavy weights with low reps on the preacher bench (I have a male friend there that actually doesn't mind helping me on this to do forced reps although I think that he just likes to watch my biceps grow and pump up!) Anyway, I've added about another 1/4 inch to my biceps and, cold, they are around 15 1/4 inches, while pumped I can get them up to 15 3/4 inches. I'm closing in on 16 inches, but it is SO HARD for us girls to get them to grow and it is amazing the amount of work that you have to put in to get another 1/4 inch (MONTHS!!) unless you take "stuff" which I would never do since I still like my "girlie" look!!! Right now, I weigh around 155 and I'm trying desparately to keep below 160 since I want to look muscular and fairly defined most of the year. However, it is a tough choice since I want to keep building muscle and getting bigger, but I don't want to weigh a ton - a real conflict. I think that most guys first notice my biceps and shoulders and, even wearing a tank top or muscle shirt to the supermarket can be difficult. While you guys on this board might love muscular women, I think that most guys still don't - the last time that I went shopping, I saw a guy looking at my arms and as we walked by, he quietly said "WOOF" to his friend (I heard it) and I'm pretty sure that he was not being kind by the snide look on his face (I was much more muscular with a bigger upper body than him, by the way, and I'm sure that he resented it). I think that I have a pretty face and nice long hair so I'm sure that the negative comments have to do with the muscles (at least, I hope that's the case). Also, I have some vascularity on my arms, calves, etc. (not excessive or anything, but it is still there) and I know that most guys think its ugly, but when you are working out and getting more muscular, the veins just seem to come (especially when you watch your diet) . You absolutely wouldn't believe how many requests I get to armwrestle or just plain wrestle. I turn 99.9% of them down since, if I beat the guy, chances are that he's just going to get mad and it's not worth it (it needs to be fun for both people). Once in a great while, I'll armwrestle a guy if he's nice, he's cute, and if I can get something free out of it (I know, I know...) I went into a Starbucks a few weeks ago and the guy behind the counter (cute) just kept complimenting me and told me "buff" I looked (I was wearing a sleeveless blouse) and told me that he'd armwrestle me for my coffee. Since not too many people were around, I told him that I would (which I think surprised him) and we went over to a table in the corner. Anyway, he rolled up the sleeves of his T-shirt up to the shoulders and I knew right away that I could beat him pretty easily since his arms were fairly thin (about 2 inches less than mine, I would guess) but I told him that he looked nice. So, we put our arms on the table and started. I was really amazed at how weak he was and how small his muscle was compared with mine. I could have put him down FAST, but I let him struggle for a really long time to make it look like he was giving me a tough time (his friends were watching). However, his muscle started kind of shaking so I put his arm down and ended the match. During the match, he was watching my muscle grow bigger from the strain and I think that he was so surprised at how big it grew that he didn't even know that he lost. I then told him that he was cool and got my coffee (free!) and left. I also wrestled a guy for about the second or third time in my life, but this message is way too long and maybe next time, I'll tell you about it (Hint: I won - he couldn't escape from my thighs!) Actually, the wrestling and arm wrestling thing is a little difficult for me since I'm very submissive by nature and it is such a totally new and unusual feeling to be strong enough to outmuscle a man when armwrestling or wrestling in general and sometimes I have a hard time with it. Anyway, thanks again for the nice E-mails and feel free to write me and I'll try to answer (I know that I'm slow, but just bear with me!) Thanks, biggermusclesthanhis@yahoo.com JanetMay 29 2006 1:35am Wow theres alot of comments. AnonymousMay 30 2006 7:43pm Yes they are stronger if they have the same muscle mass, but that rarely ever happens. Most of the time women have less muscle mass. A man being stronger than a women is far more likely to happen than a women stronger than a man. AnonymousJun 03 2006 6:26pm There is a girl in my gym who has built up her muscles and I was surprised that a girl even could have bigger muscles than many of the guys. She is possibly stronger than guys her size and about in the upper end of the men's size range if you could put it that way. She's young about 20 and when she is finished with a workout, her muscles are very big by anyone's standard. She has more muscles than I do but for some reason I'm finding it somehow attractive. ChuckJun 03 2006 7:55pm I'm in high school and my girl friend is into sports. She works out at the gym when at school and when she gets home! I don't think girls are stronger naturally but because they are treated like boys in sports they are getting too strong. She has bigger hard muscles now and it's weird because she wants to compare our muscles or strength now. She is getting muscles like a boy in her shoulders and arms and getting big. I think girls sports is fine but it's being pushed too far and to the point that she is getting an attitude plus she is no longer soft. Yes girls are becoming stronger but it's not normal. It's not normal for your girl friend to compare arm muscles and bragg about her's being bigger or stronger. Think about it. How did this all start? They're supposed to be girls not boys. She wants to be stronger than me and even said so. SteveJun 15 2006 6:09pm That is why women are doing it, to try and be stronger. They are naturally the weaker sex physically though, so as you said it takes alot of working out for them to be stronger. Another problem is men tend to be spending their time working so they don't have extra time to waste working out. AnonymousJun 16 2006 9:24pm That's the thing Steve, many of us are building up our muscles and strength more than boys. LisaJun 17 2006 12:50am Actually girls muscles are stronger naturally but on average smaller. Any strength advantage men have is usually from a size advatage, but as Steve has pointed out, the size advantage he may have had is now gone because of his girlfriend's workouts. I'd bet her muscles are now stronger than his. Plenty of research has already proven female muscle to be surprisingly stronger in several tests and as we are now seeing girls can build up their muscle size to match and beat boys through gym workouts. Steve, is your girlfriend's muscles bigger than yours now? If so how long did it take for this to happen? I can tell it is disturbing to you but you came to this forum to read about the muscular strength of girls. Times are changing. Can you tell us anything else? For example a test of strength between the two of you or measurements? BradJun 17 2006 8:54am Brad, My girl friend has bigger muscles than I do. she's been training for about two years with weights but in the last six months she is getting very muscular. I can't beat her at arm wrestling now. She has shown me that her biceps are almost 15 inches when she flexes. Her arms are about 1 1/2 inches bigger than mine if I flex. She is bigger than last year when she started saying she will be stronger than me. Now she wants me to wrestle her and challenges me to push ups that I can't beat her at. She did 55 and stopped after I could do only 23. That's what I don't get, do girls have to be this strong to play sports? Or build up all those muscles? SteveJun 18 2006 2:26pm Steve, my first impression is to say I'm in love with your girlfriend. It sounds like she is spirited, strong, and has an incredible body. A girl with muscles is one of nature's most awesome and beautiful creatures, and she can do so many things that the average weakling girl can't. Show how much you appreciate her hard work and brag about how strong she is. On the other hand, I hope she doesn't cross the line and start teasing or physically bullying you. That's not cool from anyone. As for sports, its just like guys, if you have more muscle you perform better and don't get injured as easily. Appreciate her!Jun 19 2006 7:11pm I guess I like the changes in her outlook. There is something that is hard to discribe in her now. The brightness in her eyes and the color in her skin and as you mention her spirit is very alive because of her sports and physical condition I really do love. I can see she wants me to appreciate her for being strong. There are things I like about this but I have had trouble excepting some of it too! I do like how she attracts attention over other girls when in the same place together like an energy you can't see but know it's there. I'll give her the attention and support about what she does and see how things are for us. I know she wants me to like it and is trying to show me her strong body is being sexy. I'm really thinking about all this and it does make her seem like a real grown woman compared to some girls. Thanks for some advice. SteveJun 19 2006 8:04pm Hey Steve, have you wrestled her yet? Win or lose it will be exciting for both of you. Do it soon and let us know. Appreciate her!Jun 22 2006 8:18am I haven't ever wrestled her. She has been working out every day except weekends. She has been going to the school gym for two hours in the morning and two or three evenings she lifts her weights at home as well! We were together last night and she said she wants to wrestle me this weekend. She is making a bet on beating me and I went ahead and excepted her bet. After that she she pulls her shirt off with just a sport top on and flexes and asked me who is more muscular. I had to admitt she is. SteveJun 24 2006 9:07am WOW! AnonymousJun 24 2006 3:03pm Sounds like all the pussy men on here need to start going to the gym. Then again, if women got real full time jobs they would realise how hard it is to have time to work out. AnonymousJun 25 2006 7:43pm Steve, How did the wrestle go this weekend? Having read your post my wife rachel has told me that we are going to have some kind of contest in afew days time and I am getting a little nervous BarryJun 26 2006 10:04pm Hey Steve and Barry, if you're worried about getting outmuscled by your female companions, challenge them to a boxing match. Only one girl in a million can go more than a couple of rounds against a guy. Your odds are better because even muscle girls are naturally slower and less aggressive, and they can't punch as hard as a guy or keep going after a guy has hammered them a few times. She'll be worshiping your male superiority in no time. MachomanJun 29 2006 2:36pm Barry, it's been a week and I didn't want to say that she beat me but she did. She's very strong and stronger than most guys her size. I had no control over the wrestling and was pinned every time. That's all I have to say about it. SteveJun 30 2006 5:17pm My sister has biceps like baseballs from the sports she's been involved in. I have never armwrestled my sister but she did ask me to compare arms and flex. When we did, her muscles really surprised me and I'm now wondering if I can beat her. She flexed her bicep next to a baseball and it's the same size! HowardJun 30 2006 9:40pm Steve could you please discribe what happened? It's not like anyone knows who you are, so please if you will. Also Howard, has your sister become more muscular than you? When flexed, who has the largest bicep or other muscles? Go ahead and armwrestle. AnonymousJul 01 2006 9:50am Some others have mentioned seeing something similar. My sister can flex her bicep hard and have me measure it 14 1/4 inches and then start opening her arm up and contracting the muscle all the way from stretched about ten times. You can see it getting bigger and when she holds a hard flex after ten contractions it's about 14 3/4 inches. My biceps are a little over 14 inches and I have not armwrestled her yet. She pumped hers up like that when we compared with a tape measure. I later tried to do the same thing with her not around and noticed that my muscle remained the same size. I mentioned that our biceps were really about the same size until she did that. I was stunned and embarrised and didn't even try doing that in front of her. HowardJul 01 2006 10:34am I came on here to read about the subject and I don't mind mentioning my experience. I have to agree with Steve about why should girls need to train this hard and develop so much muscles for sports? My sister is more muscular than I am but she weight trains every day because her coaches demand this of her. I have seen her throw away clothes she bought not long ago because they don't fit. Her legs have become so big with muscles that for me to wear shorts around her is embarrising. She wears shorts all the time and will sit next to me and flex and make comments about her legs being stronger. I'll admitt that there is no comparison and her muscles are much bigger than mine. Her more recent upper body change to me is a shock. She has brought up armwrestling a few more times and wrestling. She says that she will prove how much stronger she is. When we compared our arms, that's when she started to make challenges toward me. HowardJul 02 2006 9:43am I agree, don't be shy. This is what this forum is for. I've been going to a gym for many years and I have built 16" biceps. There's a girl who is smaller than me by far but big boned and she has built up her arms to what I saw measured at just under 15 1/2". I armwrestled her and beat her "barely" when she quit pulling after several minutes. To be honest I was starting to worry as I was loosing strength! I still think about what would have happened if she didn't quit! What I noticed as you mentioned is that her bicep kept getting bigger and the peak "top" of her muscle continued to push up higher and was stretching her skin as we struggled. I must confess that the sight of her muscle swelling while my round bicep remained the same, had an effect on my confidence. Her bicep looked bigger than mine after a few minutes! She rubbed her arm and said this can't be good for my arm and I don't want to get hert. Seeing her bicep getting bigger was a rush that almost knocked the strength out of me. The top back side of her bicep clearly had pumped up in size and was easy to see it enlarge a lot under the strain after about one minute! BillJul 02 2006 11:01am I knew it wasn't a good idea and to play along with her proving something would lead to trouble. My girlfriend thought it was funny to put on a good long sleave shirt of mine to show me that she is bigger by flexing and ripping it. I really think that some girls are using steriods and I said to that to her. She said that it was my excuse because she was stronger and that I needed to face it. That started another wrestle without my permission this time and her going way too far in turning it from fun into a fight with her wanting to inflict pain once she has me pinned. This whole thing isn't good and the idea of transforming girls into muscle brutes is wrong. Her whole interest now is to show me she's more muscular and to prove she's stronger. I can't believe a girl can be this strong and have big muscles without drugs. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Being pinned and her showing off and showing me her fist was enough. I'm breaking it up. Besides she spends more time working out than with me and when with me she just wants to test the results of all those workouts. She's too big and too strong and while I thought it might be sexy, it isn't. She's already proven what she wanted but that isn't enough, she now wants to push the difference in strength farther and see if I can stop her from doing damage after she has me pinned. She told me this so we are finished. Sorry. SteveJul 02 2006 12:40pm Steve, LOL! Calm down. You need to understand girl psychology. I personally don't believe girls are stronger even with weight lifting. The psychology is as old as dirt and she wants you to acert your male physical Superiority over her. She's a girl and you are stronger. Don't give up. Go put her in her place and beat her. Get her in a headlock and make her give up! AnonymousJul 02 2006 1:06pm Steve, I would have to agree with Anonymous. In her mind she knows she's a girl and everyone knows boys are stronger. You have to be the aggressor in this and trust that you are stronger because you are male. It's a fact. I don't believe girls have stronger muscles. Do you? Even when girls workout they aren't very strong. Remember that and go put her down and pin her. KevinJul 02 2006 2:09pm All those muscle girl videos don't help a guy like Steve at all. Steve do you workout? AnonymousJul 02 2006 2:18pm Those girl's biceps look like balloons inflating! You can see the muscle continue to expand at the end of the contraction until it's much bigger! Wow! BrettJul 02 2006 4:12pm Because of the smaller size of our school, we have coed in the gym. We had to watch a video on the rights of girl in physical education this year. The woman coach over the girls is in the gym pushing the girls to build up their bodies and the girls are. The girl's coach is more muscular then the boys or our coach and has the girls (bodybuilding). She will have some girls workout again after classes. The truth is when I'm in the gym some of the girls are getting muscular and bigger in the mirror until I look thin next to them. It's not just the big legs the girls have it's now big shoulders and arm muscles. Some of the girls are stronger than all but a couple of boys. The girls coach has them flex in the mirror when they are finished and shows how big the girls are getting. I think we have more girls than boys in gym and girls take up more time on weights. EnriqueJul 02 2006 5:01pm Ok maybe I'm over reacting but I also think that it could be possible that girls are stronger with the same size muscles. What you seem to overlook is that my girlfriend has more muscle compared to me. We have been together a long time and in the last two years she has grown about 5 inches taller and much bigger plus her weight lifting is making her bigger still. I've read a news article that claims some girls in school are using steriods for sports or what ever reason. How long would it take for me to build a few inches on my calves and four or five more to my thighs? Or add two inches to my arms? I do push ups and run every week and I've watched my girlfriend out muscle me within a year's time! I can't overpower her and I had no idea she could be so strong. I could wrestle her and see but she's not built like a girl anymore. She could be a bodybuilder with her muscles. I would have to trick her and be very fast. I don't mean to sound like I'm afraid but she's super strong. If it's true about girls being stronger with the same muscle mass, I'm at a big disadvantage. She wants to power out on me and fight. You understand what I'm saying? What would you do? I'm not stupid. SteveJul 02 2006 6:18pm Those bicep videos remind me of a girl back in school who should me how her bicep would get bigger and bigger as she pulled on the arm rest in my puckup truck. I thought she would break it as she started to pull up on it with her knee on her thigh! Her bicep grew and grew as she strained until it had veins everyplace and the muscle formed a seperation down the middle and the top of her muscle pumped up big. Her biceps were way bigger than mine. I tried to do that and my bicep wasn't just smaller but flexed and stayed the same size as hard as I pulled. When I saw her muscle do this, it was a real turn on and she knew it and would do this when we were alone. From the flex until she strained by pulling, there was a massive muscle size increase. Something I've never seen since. AndrewJul 02 2006 6:54pm When I was a teen and in school a couple years back there was this girl named Gloria who had a big round bicep with a thick vein on top when she carried her books! I finally ran into her at a city park in a shaded shelter. I had to ask her to show me her muscles dispite that I felt embarrised to ask her such a thing for some reason. She didn't even bat an eye and started into flexing her bicep from an open arm. The muscle was so large by the time her clenched fist pulled close to her shoulder that I was just Mesmerized by it's size. I could see the muscle fiber twitching in her bicep! Although I can't remember her involved in any sports, she was built like she had been doing something to become so muscular. In my mind Gloria's bicep is the biggest I've ever seen in person and she was very big boned. Her wrists were much larger than mine. I don't go to any gym because I live on a farm. So I'm sure there is girls like her at gyms. Or is she rare? MarkJul 02 2006 7:48pm Detail please! Howard, can you tell us about armwrestling your sister? Or a full wrestling match? What is the visible difference in muscle by comparing your self to your sister? Thank you. AnonymousJul 02 2006 8:04pm 2000 16 October According to results presented at a meeting of international scientists: When performing certain isometric exercises, the endurance of women is almost twice that of men performing the same exercises, at the same percent of maximum strength, a new study has found. The study, conducted at the University of Colorado in the US, confirmed that women outlasted men by an average of 75 per cent and, importantly, showed that the reason women had longer endurance times was not due to differences in the motivation levels between men and women, or within the nervous system, but due to differences within muscle. AnonymousJul 03 2006 7:46am women may have better blood flow to the muscles, making them less prone to tire quickly. Other findings from the study boost this theory: The women's blood pressure and heart rates were lower than the men's during the exercises. Because estrogen promotes blood flow, Hunter said, hormonal differences could explain endurance differences between women and men. AnonymousJul 03 2006 7:49am It would seem that having better blood flow into the muscles could or would enhance muscle pump during exercise or contraction and probably development. LGJul 03 2006 8:09am All this talk about women pumping up their biceps to a larger size under strain reminded me of a happening nearly fifty years ago. i had stopped in at an aunt's house for dinner. During the meal, the conversation somehow got around to muscles. This was in a day when women did not go around showing off their muscles, so I don't recall how the situation developed. There were four boys in the family, none of them muscular. the father had a strong and very muscular build from years of hard work and good genes. The mother had grown up on a farm, but she did not have any visible muscular developement. She had not done any heavy work in years, maybe not even as a growing farm girl. Any how, somebody must have mentioned that girls don't have muscles, so the mother said to watch her, whereupon, she flexed her arm showing a small bubble of a bicep. She held her arm in the flex position for several seconds and then started flexing and unflexing, making her very firm looking bicep bounce and seemingly roll back and forth. After a few flexes, she said, "Now, watch this." She then held her arm in what appeared to be a hard flex for several long seconds. After a while, she stuck her thumb in her mouth and made believe to blow air into her arm. as she huffed away, her biceps began to increase in small increments right before our eyes. As i said, her arm was not really big, but the sight of her swelling it as she appeared to fill it with air was quite surprising, to say the least. She offered us to feel how hard it was. Her boys took her up on it, but I would have had to walk around the table. My reaction to the sight, being rather visible, i declined a feel. I had forgotten the incident for all of these years, as i had not reallized there was any more significance to the happening other than a little muscle control, which, of course, I have never been able to duplicate, even tho i have tried. I am only a poor old man, and so I am destined to not ever have such a capability. Old TimerJul 04 2006 2:22am I have argued this point (who really has stronger muscles) with my wife lately. She claims that things are changing and has handed me a few things to read on this subject that contradicts what I've always thought. We are both active and stay in shape and the fact is her legs are now bigger and stronger than mine. I'm two inches taller but she has developed her upper body strength enough to be a match for me if not stronger. During our argument about male & female muscle strength, we armwrestled and I did loose but only after a long struggle. I told her that this isn't a test of strength and that it's more about leverage and some skill although I was dealing with myself inside about her strength. Our upper arms are very close to the same size when flexed but her's are somewhat smooth looking when not flexing. She said that we should pull against each other to really test our biceps and standing there we did but that really proved nothing. She asked that we face each other across the counter with our upper arms flat on the surface and then pull as if curling weights would be a real test. We locked hands and from a mid point we started pulling. It's been said on here about seeing a muscle change shape or grow larger, I can say that I understand. This like armwrestling took several minutes and I could see after about two minutes that her bicep muscle was rippling even though she had not gained any movement. As the rippling continued, the muscle grew larger and separated right down the center and continued until her upper arm actually looked like it had two biceps that were both getting bigger. The section on the back side of her bicep swelled up at that point and completely changed in shape and size as if it was another muscle all together. By then my bicep burned and began to fade in strength no matter how hard I forced myself to pull. She did start opening my arm up slowly until her arm was curled back tight and finally beat me. I have a few other things to add about this later. JamesJul 04 2006 10:39am I am fascinated by the size change and shape of her muscle during a strenuous load. It takes a heavy load for it to happen and a little time. Once this occurres it becomes obvious that the muscle is quickly adapting to the load and you can see it enlarge quite a lot. By the time my bicep is burning and my strength is beginning to fade her muscle has become bigger. By the looks of it, her muscle has gained in size to where it now appears to be not just larger than when we started but larger than my bicep. When the seperation forms down the center of her bicep, it seems as though the two halves are working together at contracting but the seperation spreads it apart as she continues until the two separate bulges are distinctly visible. Now they look like "two muscles" growing larger and give her whole bicep so much more size that it's difficult to believe what you have just seen happen. Nothing like this is ever noticeable until she is pushed to the limit and really it starts at the same time my strength starts to fall off. We have tried this now eight times with the same results. I do love to see it for sure but I can't figure out how she has this ability in her muscles. It's a mystery to me. She even made the comment that if she continues doing this that each half might just become as large as my round bicep! One thing that I notice is that her muscles are longer than mine but I'm not sure if that is an advantage at all. She says it is of course. I haven't read that muscle length is important but I have read about more cross sectional area can produce more strength. JamesJul 04 2006 5:02pm James thanks for posting about your wife. This isn't the only place I've read about this and it is interesting. AnonymousJul 04 2006 5:25pm Women have been more creatures of the kitchen and fireside than of the great outdoors, and the present generation of young women who will become the mothers of the next generation have more muscle and more lung capacity than their own mothers. The growth of athletics for girls is largely responsible for this. Girls at a young age often have more strength and muscle than boys and the focus in schhol sports is now on developing the girls muscles and strength for sports. This is whay you now see girls with more muscle and strength than their brothers or boyfriends. This has become one of the most popular subjects on the internet. AnneJul 09 2006 11:21am I type too fast, maybe I should spell check! AnneJul 09 2006 11:23am There are girls at my school who are doing bench presses equal to their own bodyweight for sets. They are also doing pull ups on the rings but don't stop at that, they pull up and then lift themselves slowly until they dpush all the way up with the rings at their waste. It's a pull up and tricep push up all in one motion on the rings! Some do it as much as 8-10 times! They have coaches training them to do this! One of the girls I've grown up with now has wider shoulders than me and bigger arm muscles. GaryJul 22 2006 11:33am Dear Gary, Are the boys receiving these lessons also, or only the girls? If not, you should file a formal complaint of gender discrimination. How old are these girls? Do they dress normal, or wear sleeveless to show off their muscles? Have they been behaving differently sine they got muscles? Curious1Jul 22 2006 8:07pm The boys and girls have gymnastics, girls have softball, boys baseball and football. This is what the girls are doing in regular PE. Girls 12-14 years old. We have weight room time but the training is not the same. We don't do what they do in PE, the women coaches have the girls do that. Some of the girls do show off their muscles or compare with boys. GaryJul 23 2006 9:07am The girl I've grown up with is a good friend but not like a steady girlfriend. She says they do cross training and supersets with weights all the time and her coach told them that girls in the past usually scored lower in physical strength but they are going to change that. The girls have made more than a 50 percent strength increase from doing this and by comparing to boys tests she says the girls are getting to the point of being stronger. My friend says her coach compares notes and scores to that of the boys to see the progress the girls make but the goal is to make it even. GaryJul 23 2006 9:31am Dear Gary, Thank you for answering my question. I didn't exactly understand what you meant when you said: "We have weight room time but the training is not the same. We don't do what they do in PE, the women coaches have the girls do that." Please explain in more detail. Thank you. Sincerely, Curious1Jul 23 2006 9:31am I'll call her my girlfriend because we really like each other. Her coach has been teaching them that society has not really had training for girls physical strength in the past and that girls are usually stronger and more developed at her age. she is taught that this is the time for sports training and to take advantage of this. The girls strength train every school day in the gym and her phys-ed teacher has had her do this for the last two years. In our normal PE we use the gym two days a week unless we are playing football or some sport. My girl-friend weighs over 150 lbs now and does work up to that for bench press sets and half that for overhead sets. She says that it is easy now to use that weight. I've tried to do the ring pull up and tricep press all the way but I can't get past the pull up! We don't do this in phys-ed but it would be part of gymnastics if you are on the team I think. I do think the girls get better training and are pushed harder "by their coaches" but overall it's about the same if you are involved with team sports, in otherwords her coach has made it a must to train hard and become stronger in regular PE. My girl says that girls have stronger muscles when endurance is considered but she knows that men are usually larger and says this is the only strength advantage men really have. She is more than happy to pull off her shirt and with just her sports top on flex her muscles. In this last year her shoulders have become broad and wider then mine and she has more muscle than I do. It is because of her phys-ed classes and she knows this. I can even see that her frame is bigger now and her rib cage is big. I know this sounds strange but it's very easy to see this. She has said that the supersets and short rest between sets is for her lungs and heart and the heavy weights is for her frame and muscles. She has had me stand with her in the mirror and take a deep breath to compare and she is bigger and has me look at her muscles. I'm not saying she is huge but she is much bigger than me when it comes to muscles and she's stronger. It's sports and training that's changing the way girls are built. I really like her because she is a great person to be with. When we were little I held her down and teased her and now she has reminded me of when I did that and asks if I'd like to try it now and has me feel her arm! She says she enjoys this training but at first she hated it, so if things changed at school she would continue to work out. She now loves and respects her coaches and understands why they are doing this. GaryJul 23 2006 2:54pm Get used to it Gary, I have a sister who is pumping iron like there's a war to win. She's building muscles like crazy too! She's real strong and getting stronger, I'm only a year older and I do have my doubts about being stronger than her as it stands now. AnonymousJul 23 2006 5:48pm Dear Gary, Thank you for answering my questions. {1} Is it only the girls on the gymnastics team (or other teams) that lift heavy, or is it ALL the girls her age in your school? {2} How are most boys reacting? {3} Your girlfriend weighs 150 lbs and benches 150 lbs -- that puts her in the same poundages as a professional heavyweight female bodybuilder! {4} Your school claims that they train the girls for strength equality with boys, but I suspect that this is merely temporary goal, and their true goal is strength superiority over boys. Agree? {5} Is your girlfriend going to continue her muscle routine next year, or will she be going to a different school? And if she does continue, what will she be like a year from now? 10 years from now? {6} By the way, girls who get big muscles early in life often want to lose them later in life, and they can't, and it drives them crazy. {7} Are the girls training their calves for muscularity, or are the concentrating on upper body? If they are training calves, then how muscular are their calves? Thank you for your continued co-operation! Curious1Jul 23 2006 7:27pm Dear Anonymous, {1} How old is your sister {2] How long has she been lifting? {3} What poundages does she use for biceps, etc? {4} And what is her motivation for pumping iron like there's a war to win? Curious1Jul 23 2006 7:29pm No it's not the girls gymnastics team, they train for the routine of the sport very hard. It's the regular Phys-Ed class that the girls are in my view bodybuilding and strength training. I'm no expert in this but hard training like that is what a bodybuilder would do, right? Except the endurance part I guess. I don't know all of what they do and some girls are lame and don't care but as I understand most get with it and like it! I think most boys are ok with it but girls with muscles is new to me. Girl's sports is very popular and everyone goes to the softball & basketball games, sometimes more stands are filled for the girls sports. My girlfriend works up to 150 lbs for bench presses and can do it for reps. Do I think that girls are training to be stronger than boys? Maybe, the girl's coach is buffed and if that happened she'd maybe get off on it but she's good looking too! Some girls are really stronger than most boys, I'm sure they are just strong anyway but workouts like they do is making them stronger and they have serious muscles now. We will go to a new school next year so I don't know but they were told this will prepare them for sports. The girls train their whole body as my girl-friend has filled me in on how sore and painful she has been sometimes. Some of the girls have the biggest calf muscles period. That's embarrassing because it's like most guys have skinny legs and girls have thick muscles. Girls out muscle guys in legs for sure cept a few big guys. My girlfriend has big calves and I guess I like that or at least I like to see them as she walks. GaryJul 24 2006 6:35pm Dear Gary, Thank you very much for answering my questions. When you get a chance, please email at: menunite@myway.com. Thank you! Curious1Jul 24 2006 7:44pm Curious1, my sis is 21 and works at a gym. She works out before and after work most of the time. Growing up she was a competitive swimmer with big shoulders. As a matter of fact her shoulders are about three inches wider than mine and bigger. She's more muscular than her boyfriend. Not sure what she lifts or the motivation. When we're together she will show me her muscles and wants to see me flex. AnonymousJul 25 2006 5:36am Dear Anonymous, Thank you for answering my question. Please email at: menunite@myway.com. Thank you! PS: Us men must unite, or be crushed!! Curious1Jul 25 2006 10:19am I was amazed by Gary's story! I wonder what city or state is this in and my even more important question is how many schools are doing this? HGS (High School Graduate)Jul 25 2006 11:49am Have any of you been around women's collage sports? Softball, Basketball, or any? Those girls are built and many are weighing in at close to 200 lbs of muscle. When my daughter came home from collage softball she was BIG everywhere! 5'9" @180 lbs of muscle and bigger and stronger than her father. I think it's true that on a pound for pound measurement, girls are stronger. Shure we don't have 6'4" 300 pound girls playing football but who knows what the future holds. Most girls in collage basketball are well over 6' and over 200 lbs now! It wasn't like that in my high school days. It think if you brought collage girls teams back to the 1960s they would stomp the men into the ground! Girls are just getting started. sports momJul 25 2006 5:15pm Send pictures of muscular women flexing to menunite@myway.com. Only send pictures of women you personally know, like neighbors, sisters or teachers. Do NOT send pictures from the internet. Any photographs containing nudity will be DELETED immediately!! I want to see what these people look like, the ones we are talking about on this poll. Curious1Jul 26 2006 8:23pm It's shamefull to be a guy after seeing the Girl's shoulders pic from above.... holy crap these girls can build some incredible mass and density, I have worked out for years and have not even come close to that at my best!!! ShamefullGuyJul 27 2006 12:15am Curious1, you are clearly an IDIOT. Get a LIFE and get your hand of IT Fit ChickJul 27 2006 12:27am ShamefullGuy, the girl in that picture probably took drugs to look that way. Female bodybuilders only look like comic-book superwomen a few weeks each year. The rest of the time is called "off season" when they look similar to everyone else. HSG (High School Graduate)Jul 27 2006 3:03pm Police Hunt 4 Women In Beating Death Of Bingo Winner April 11, 2006 www.local6.com/news/8608871/detail.html Police in Toronto are searching for four women suspected of beating a man to death over a $1,000 jackpot he had just won in a bingo hall, according to Local 6 News. Police said Yousif Youkhana, 58, was walking outside the Country Bingo Hall over the weekend with his $1,000 winnings when he was approached by the women. When Youkhana refused to hand over the jackpot, the women kicked and punched him, the report said. Witnesses said the man stumbled back into the bingo hall after the attack and later died from his injuries. The women fled on foot after the beating, according to witnesses. curious1Jul 28 2006 11:56am Curious1 go find somewhere else to post, you obviosly have some weird fetish issues dude. AnonymousJul 28 2006 4:30pm sports mom, one would have to be out of touch with reality and dening the truth to not see that girls are becoming both stronger and more muscular from sports. AnonymousJul 29 2006 12:26pm Who in this poll has spoken the truth and who has spoken lies? Reality CheckJul 30 2006 11:03am This is for Gary and all the boys in his school: The WAR AGAINST BOYS: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men by Christina Hoff Sommers www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684849577/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/104-7454267-7467965?n=283155 Victim of FeminismJul 30 2006 9:45pm Well victim, girls have had the short end of the stick for generations... Boo hoo hoo. AnonymousAug 01 2006 5:40pm Anonymous, are you saying that things that happened 100 years ago justify victimizing boys today, who never did anything against women? Victim of FeminismAug 01 2006 6:39pm Hey victim of feminism, maybe you have some legitimate grievance, but most "vicitms" of feminism are like white "victims" of "reverse" racism in the US. They are upset because they have lost some of the undeserved extra privilege they would have had under the earlier system and are treated more equally with women, people of color, etc. And by the way, masculinist, patriarchal discrimination against girls and women is not something that "happened 100 years ago." It happened for centuries and continues today in some forms. Voice of reasonAug 03 2006 5:25am Gary, the ring pull-up & tricep push-up is called a "muscle up". Yes I agree some girls have stronger muscles on measured equal basis. RayAug 12 2006 3:54pm Voice of reason, I have to agree with you. Now that things are at least closer to being equal, We are seeing the muscular strength of girls increasing thru sports. The strength gap is not just closing, we are witnessing the strength overlap increasing. My girlfriend has gradually gained on me during our workouts together. For one thing she definitely has superior muscular endurance and is able to push her muscles farther. She has larger and stronger legs while at the same time has closed the gap that once existed between the two of us in upper body strength. We are about the same in upper body strength in that she no longer takes weights off for her sets and has proven to me that she can do more reps with equal weight when we end the sets with maximum reps. I can assume that she will continue to gain strength faster than I can and overlap me in strength from what I've seen happen since we started as exercise partners. RayAug 13 2006 10:43am I've been wondering about this subject. My girlfriend is envolved in sports and also weight trains alot. Her muscles have gotten to the same size as mine or some like her legs are even larger than mine. We have play wrestled a couple of times and I can tell that she is stronger than I am. I'm just thinking that it could be true about girls muscle strength when compared on equal size. ShawnAug 20 2006 2:46am Laura Phelps obliterated her own 165 pound weight class record total at the APF Powerstation Meet in Middletown, Ohio. Phelps totalled 1,650 pounds to best her previous mark of 1,579 pounds. She hit a 725 pound squat, 415 pound bench and a 510 pound deadlift to become the first American women to achieve a 10x bodyweight total. AnonymousAug 20 2006 9:54am Add a comment: Vote Results |
